harley eight valves

[HarleyCreation]

do you think the race dept. would destroy it to keep it out of the hands of competition or would frugal business men keep it to rework.remember in the early half of the last century thing were not throw away or disposable, but always race secrets are guarded .whoever was the owner they're probably long gone.

Some race bikes were brought back to the Factory and stored there, sometimes for many years. But these were usually later smashed with hammers and then scrapped. Only a few managed to escape that fate. Use your imagination to guess how! At that time racers were not kept for their collection. Others could have stayed with dealers and never sent back, blown parts, spares, etc. Harley didn't bother to keep track of everything.

[exeric]

Fred Ludlow from race at Syracuse N.Y.

[bobbyt]

We going to do something on early H-D 8-valves in the near future.

One thing of importance will be to prove that the first Harley 8-valve was actually fielded and raced in 1915, and not 1916 as commonly believed. Of course 1916 was a smashing success for the Milwaukee brand, altho in a year of great turmoil and change.

According to Motorcycling and Bicycling reports, Otto Walker raced the new 8-valve Harley at the Maywood borad track in Chicago in September of 1915.

Bob Turek

[sveger]

Harley 8 valve racers

With regard to the Italian bikes they are originals and not copies from what I know. There where also a 8 valve sent from the factory to Sweden that I think is still there (need to check that out, but out of the head I think it is still there), then there where one at least sent to Germany (Harleysons.de should know) that I is still around, there where one in UK that where brought back to US by famous Boozefighter John Cameroon.
I seem to remember there where one in Switzerland (maybe that is one of the Italian ones)-
This is out of the head but I have l have all this info in my library.

Sverre
Norway

[Barry Brown]

John Cameron's bike was reputedly and probably Freddie Dixon's bike that he raced at Brooklands etc. I am sure there is already a thread covering this topic. Is there no way to prevent redundancy? Maybe I should shut up. Anyway, Cameron built it up as Dixon raced it with an Indian ? 2 speed and footboards and clip ons{ maybe the first ever? )etc. Dan Statnekov bought it from Cameron for $75,000 and put it back to American close coupled frame board track configuration. Cameron wrote a letter to the AMCA which was published before his death vehemently denouncing what Statnekov had done. Cameron died and Statnekov sold this bike with 5 other racers to Harley for their museum for a cool 3 million according to Dale Axlerod and others. Personally i think IF the engine was Dixon's it is a tragedy that historical aspect has been lost forever . I have not been to the museum but my guess would be that Dixon probably doesn't get a mention.

[rwm]

http://www.fabletyfablet.com/articulos.php
check this out

[rwm]

http://www.harleysons.de/8%20V%20europe.htm
some cool photos here

[c.o.]

John Cameron's bike was reputedly and probably Freddie Dixon's bike that he raced at Brooklands etc. I am sure there is already a thread covering this topic. Is there no way to prevent redundancy? Maybe I should shut up. Anyway, Cameron built it up as Dixon raced it with an Indian ? 2 speed and footboards and clip ons{ maybe the first ever? )etc. Dan Statnekov bought it from Cameron for $75,000 and put it back to American close coupled frame board track configuration. Cameron wrote a letter to the AMCA which was published before his death vehemently denouncing what Statnekov had done. Cameron died and Statnekov sold this bike with 5 other racers to Harley for their museum for a cool 3 million according to Dale Axlerod and others. Personally i think IF the engine was Dixon's it is a tragedy that historical aspect has been lost forever . I have not been to the museum but my guess would be that Dixon probably doesn't get a mention.

Barry,I think it's highly likely that you just documented that machine more than what is probably listed at the museum. Just an opinion here but I think that John Cameron had a right to be a little peeved......

[c.o.]

Some race bikes were brought back to the Factory and stored there, sometimes for many years. But these were usually later smashed with hammers and then scrapped. Only a few managed to escape that fate. Use your imagination to guess how! At that time racers were not kept for their collection. Others could have stayed with dealers and never sent back, blown parts, spares, etc. Harley didn't bother to keep track of everything.

What a tragic story to modern day "old" bike freaks.......

[c.o.]

With regard to the Italian bikes they are originals and not copies from what I know. There where also a 8 valve sent from the factory to Sweden that I think is still there (need to check that out, but out of the head I think it is still there), then there where one at least sent to Germany (Harleysons.de should know) that I is still around, there where one in UK that where brought back to US by famous Boozefighter John Cameroon.
I seem to remember there where one in Switzerland (maybe that is one of the Italian ones)-
This is out of the head but I have l have all this info in my library.

Sverre
Norway

I have heard of the Italian machines before and vaguely remember seeing pics. I'd be willing to think they are likely the real deal. Do you have any pics of these elusive 8-valves Sverre?

[jurassic]

copied from ....the vintage years at brooklands

F W DIXON 998 cc harley davidson....... the motor cycle that freddie dixon could not ride was never built, and with the greatest respect to the designer,this harley davidson was not it. in this photo ,dixon has had quite a field day at the first B.M.C.R.C. meeting on april 7 1923, winning three races without being pressed,including the three laps solo scratch race at 94.50 mph.dixon used this machine with its eight valve engine at many of the sprints and hill climbs held throughout the country in the early 1920's, and at the clipstone speed trials on july 29 1922 ,when IP riddoch covered the flying start half mile at 101.44 mph. as riddoch is given credit for being the first motor cyclist to exceed 100 mph on a public road in great britian,presumably he made his run before dixon. note the clip on handlebars ,a feature on several of dixons machines.

[jurassic]

copied from .......the vintage years at brooklands

FW DIXON 998 cc harley davidson........ on 20 october 1923, dixon had his big machine really going, winning the B.M.C.R.C. 100 cc championship race at 100.10 mph. the machine has a frame of the type used on the american board tracks, and described opposite DH davidsons 100 mph record maker. it may well be one of the frames from the two machines sent to england in november 1920. note the complete absence of any form of exhaust system , a most interesting point in view of the winning speed. it must be remembered that these were the days of experimentation, and all lengths and diameters of exhaust pipes were tested. note ,too, as in the previous photo , the box around the carburettor or carburettors. although allchin and remington had used one carburettor per cylinder on their machines ,it was dixon who first recognised the real value of this, and discouraged prying eyes from seeing too much . it was probably upon this harley davidson that dixon took the worlds flying start kilometre record at 106.8 mph on the bois de boulogne on sept 9 1923 .

[jurassic]

i believe this is the bike that harley purchased a few years back,but i cannot confirm the sale price . it is the second generation C port type head

it looks like freddie dixon had the engine in at least 2 different chassis', notice in the later photo the addition of a small inspection cover over the magneto gear. the same cover appears on the statnekov bike.if this engine was freddie dixons,which it most certainly appears to be ,then i am sure that it was a huge selling point ,and probably the only reason the factory paid so dearly for it. i never knew this history but always wondered why the factory paid so much for it.now i know ,and good for them for purchasing a very historic piece of their own history.

[Barry Brown]

That's all very well but my question still remains, is the Dixon connection mentioned at the museum and if so HOW did they verify it other than anecdotal which does not cut it from a proper historical perspective . I haven't been there so can't comment on this . is the museum a real museum or just Disneyland for Harleys? Did anyone ever think to ask John Cameron's son Dee if he knew anything about this?
Cory, look through the back issues of Classic Bike magazine and you will find an article on pre eminent italian collector Benito Battilani and his Harley 8 valves which apparently have documented italian racing history. I believe out tech guru "Red fred" visited his collection 2 years ago.

[rwm]

http://www.casttv.com/video/wqbvnp1/...attilani-video
the itialin dale wheels trough time with good pizza