*** Your Story Is Needed ! ***

[AFJ]

In the past I naively loaned old pictures of Crockers to "friends" only to see them used in magazines and marketing and labelled
"property of" "from the collection of " and "copyright protected" These guys are all long standing members of the AMCA who I never would have thought capable of this two faced deception , of course when it comes to Crockers it's all about greed these days.

Not just Crockers, it would seem. A long-time friend had a "motorcycle historian and journalist" borrow several of his albums for "research purposes". subsequently some of the pictures were used in published articles (for which the "motorcycle historian and journalist" got well paid) After a couple of years my friend finally got the albums back, with the pictures all detached and out of order. Subsequently some of these pictures have turned up in museum collections, attributed to- you guessed it - the "motorcycle historian and journalist."

The publications for which I do motorcycling journalistic work insist that proper attribution of photograph sources be made in all cases. The respective sources for pictures must be compensated, if they require it. And all interviews for articles, and all use of sources of information consulted must be done under proper procedures to protect the specific interests of those who are interviewed or act as sources.

Asking people to write "their story" and send "their pictures" which are then copied into a book for commercial sale amounts to plagiarism.

AFJ

[Ohio-Rider]

It would seem that the brotherhood of this passion is in a sad condition. What a pity. Way to much time being spent looking over our shoulders. -Steve

[exeric]

It's just common sense not to loan original pictures. In the case of tgray's literary concept, I assume he would be delighted with amature photos of before and after projects. AFJ and Barry are talking about valuable historical photos and documents that have great intrinsic value on their own. With all due respect to the victims you mention, that was irresponsible by the barrower and lender.

As I said before, we're not talking about 'War and Peace', or some best seller that sells millions of copies. What I see is people jumping all over a guy who wants to create a book that would be of great value to lovers of antique motorcycles. I don't see anyone else diving into a difficult project like this and I haven't heard tgray ask anyone for money to finance his project. . . Unlike other members of this club who have taken money. . . . Oh yeah, I forgot, they didn't ask.

[Baytown]

What an amazing response!

I wish I had a bike worthy to share it's story with the world, in a format that anyone had access to (i.e a book)
If I thought the writer was professional and worthy of support, I would supply copies of the original photos, pen a story, etc.
I've sent stories and photos of my Indian to well known publishers in the US which were printed, and had stories done on my bikes in 2 well known Aussie magazines. I've never received a cent and did not get the copies of my photos back. That's OK, they were copies. The stuff was printed though and the reward was my 2 minutes of fame, and memories that I still have in print. I've also had web based stuff done for the VI web site. I'm no Terry Duffy, so in place of mechanical ability, it's great to be able to help the various editors and feel part of the old bike community by contributing stories and pictures in stead of tech articles or informed advice.
I must admit that I think the non supportive comments that Tom has received were not warranted without proof that he has a bad reputation or intent to defraud people. If an individual knows him to be of bad character, then fair enough, but I don't think it is the case from what I've read so far. Certainly his posts to the list have been innocuous and courteous in general. He's not a troll.
Please don't take this as a lecture, I've just witnessed a very surprising and disappointing character assassination fellas, and we've probably just lost a contributer to the group, and this is just my opinion. This list has been getting slower, while others getting stronger and active membership growing. Reasons???

Ken.

[exeric]

I thought about this last night and it really bothered me. I think tgray was treated shamefully on this site. It's stuff like this that will further doom this forum and chase away old and new contributors.

I still can't believe people aren't enthusiastic about his idea. like everyone, I think I've seen or have all the books on American motorcycles. There are very few books that go into the multi faceted process of restoration from the owner's point of view. I can imagine a very valuable tool for restorers and a book with a lot of interesting and funny stories. Besides, who wouldn't want their bike featured in a book. I have had three of my bikes pictured in books and one on a bubble gum card. I didn't get a dime for any of those features but I don't complain because I thought it was pretty cool. Two of those bikes are gone now but I can take out a book and show you a picture of them when they were fresh and beautiful. You can't put a price tag on that. Another thing, both of my Hendersons have been photographed for American Iron. There was never any mention of money and I never wanted any. I would be proud to see them in that fine magazine, of coarse neither bike has ever been featured in American Iron but if/when they are I'd like to think they would contribute to the sales of that magazine. I don't hear anyone calling Buzz a thief.

[pem]

I too thought about submitting some photos but I don't know now. I can understand why
some people might be concerned about losing their ownership of old photos because some of these old photos are worth some serious money. In the past I have lent many a photo for use in magazine articles and such. I have made many copies of same for other serious collectors who would in turn trade photos back to me. That's the way I like to do it.

I have also been burned bad by some of our so called "big money" collectors who promised
to send me copies and I never heard from them again.

I know where there are videos and photos taken of a house and garage and attic filled with old cyclecar and airplane parts. Crates full. Unopened for 80 years. Really cool photos. I will try and obtain them and hopefully post some and bring them to Davenport. Nothing gaurenteed as the owner is a bit eccentric. Then again so am I.

Dick

[jww]

And we wonder why our club is headed in the direction it is? Haven't been on the forum in a while.......maybe its best. There are several questions I feel "tgray" would need to answer before i would have an interest in forwarding him anything, but I also feel some of you became very defensive and abrasive to a fellow club member without asking any questions. I too have helped folks out and felt taken advantage of, nevertheless I refuse to respond to any fellow AMCA members request and imply they have bad intentions from the start. Sometimes its more respectful to just say nothing folks.
Johnny Whitsett

[LouieMCman]

Hey at least the guy ASK for the info. I've got at least six books with my bikes in them that no one ask to use and made money off of. It sounds like it would be an interesting book to read, give the guy a brake. If you don't want to send him anything fine, but why bad mouth him? Hey guess what folks....they are only motorcycles. You can't take them with you, someone else is going to get your precious motorcycles and other junk anyway. Lighten up.

[Robert Luland]

Boy did I cause a ruckus? When I posted in the beginning of this thread it was not my intention to hurt anyone. I never set out to assassinate anyone’s character. I’ve been burned before and it was just my way of reaching out to the people that read this forum. The way the post was written smelled bad. The majority of the post her are not attacking TJRAY. They are simply stating that they have been screwed in the past and would not participate in the project. TJRAY is the person that went off the deep end. If ya want to contribute. Then do so. I got nothing against this guy. Bob

[Ohio-Rider]

Everyone of us who have been hanging around here a while, have seen some topics which start as an innocent topic subject and someway or another got turned around into a p*ssing contest. Who can explain it. That’s what we appear to have here in my opinion.

Thanks Bob for your follow up reply. I think it’s goes along way in explaining how sometimes I read one thing but don’t always understand it the way the author meant me to. With this being a world wide forum, sometimes it amazes me how a lot of the folks here from all over the world understand what the heck is going on here. LOL -Steve

[Buzz Kanter]

WOW! As a long time member of this club AND the guy who has probably lost more money on motorcycle magazines and books than anyone alive, I have to say most people who put together and distribute magazines and books about old motorcycles lose money on it.

So much for everyone thinking this guy is a thief or a crook. I suspect he is doing it out of love for the machines and their history and not for love of money. I know as I did this same thing when I published Indian Motorcycle Illustrated more than a decade ago. I lost money on each and every issue I ever published - a lot of money.

Besides, as more than one person before my post stated, who doesn't feel good about sharing his bike or bikes with other enthusiasts in a book or magazine?

Tom, what can I do to help with your book? I might have a bike or two that qualifies and would happy to supply photos and text. One word of caution though, if you do not have the distribution established before you print you might get a rude awakening. I am not aware of many retailers clamoring for more books on classic bikes.

Either way good luck.