Over-restored bikes?

[Lonnie]

In the process of restoration of several bikes that have have gone through the AMCA (and a couple that may) and in talking with several restorers, I note that many of the motorcycles being restored are over-restored. Though the AMCA has as part of its creed the preservation of antique motorcycles, there are a vast number of bikes out there that look much better than anything the manufacturer produced. Super-slick paint jobs, clear-coated decals, , glossy powdercoated frames and other parts, stainless spokes and other modern touches in the process of restoration certainly produce some beautiful machines. However, over time these bikes will never develop quite the patina of the factory finishes or the earlier restorations that were more era-correct.

I saw this restoration "dilemna" in the Corvette restoration field a number of years back. Many Vette's had notorious paint from the factory with noticeable orange peel, but most restored ones had mirror-like paint. There were other examples I could mention, but the point is that like a pendulum, the trend swung back to a more "life-like" restoration process after the National Corvette Restorers Society and such venues as Bloomington Gold started deducting points from over-restored vehicles, even penalizing for paint with out some degree of orange peel. The result was restorations more true to the original appearance.

Taking the over-restoration trend one step further, with the improved powderpainting procedures out there now, it is even possible to powdercoat the sheetmetal, especially if your color choice is black!

As noted in another thread that Harley Creation began on the topic of original vs. restored machines with comments about "rustorations", I am curious what others think about this topic. And, should the AMCA begin to stress a more "era-correct" appearance to Original Restored motorcycles to include disallowing powdercoating, stainless, etc?

FYI, I would state that beyond a doubt my bikes are over-restored. Thanks.

[exeric]

You have brought up some very valid points Lonnie. Paint is certainly the most controversial. With early motorcycles, it's hard to determine how good or poor a factory paint job was. If you read their literature, the big 3 state that their paint work was hand rubbed to a high gloss. This can be interpreted many different ways but most of us have interpreted it as flawless shiney and smooth. As for decals, from what I have read and seen, the decals were often shellacked for protection. On a light color motorcycle this is quite obvious because the shellack turns yellow.

Japanning was a common practice for many of the painted parts on motorcycles and this ususally left a few runs in the paint. Not many of us could afford to fill a bathtub with paint to replicate this process.

Stainless steel is a great material but it's out of place on old motorcycles. However, for spokes it is a fantastic substitute for originals. I have had original spokes nickel plated and in addition to being spotty in color, they always get the nickel too thick.

I guess you could say there is preservation, restoration, and historical re-creation. Each approach has many layers of interpretation and application. Ultimately it's up to the current owner to pick the way they want to go about it, but we all have to keep in mind that it is history we are playing with. I have heard people say: "It's my bike and I'll do what I want to please myself." I have never liked this statement because it usually means they are going to do lousey job of it. I think the fair hand of Kevin Valentine and the judging policies of the club, as well as brilliant work by the most talented people will guide future restorations to a higher level.

[miker]

over restored

I would hope we stay the course on restorations. Some have gone trhrough a lot of money effort and time to bring a machine back to as near as new state. As the dealer recieved it, I believe is not truley attainable for most machines...I imagine that would require documentation as to the delivery, paint, equipment groups and whathave you ...May as well just repoduce a clone.

The new addtions of ss and powder coating will give the owners more years of satisfaction if the of the winners circle has been attained. I did mine that way because I like to ride it not detail it.

It just seems to get to deep too fast with too much self importance. I enjoy peoples reaction to seeing the machine out and about as much I as enjoy riding it. If it nevers makes the winners circle because of some snit brewed up over what is correct in someones opinion, so be it, but I'll try in the mean time.

Mike

[bobdo]

I won't try & direct anyone's thinking on restoration, but I will comment on my approach. I don't want to powdercoat or use any finish that does not "weather" or develop patina in time as it should. I plan on riding my bike & as we all know, it will develop some character no matter how careful I am & that's fine. Others may intend on only trailering it to meets & then display it in their living room or museum, that's fine for them.
As for judging, I would think point reduction for having the wrong type of metal, SS vs Cad plated steel is in order, as well as paint type or finish. I'll leave that to the judges. Eric mentioned "Japanning", I've heard of it in wood finishes, but I'm not aware of the process. Is it the same as dipping? I've seen parts that appear to have been dipped, just curious. I saw a History Channel episode on Ford's assembly line. There was a guy painting the back panel of a Model A with what looked like a mop ! It took him three swipes to cover the panel & it looked pretty good. If I could I'd have him paint my Knuckle, but then I wouldn't have any fun. Bob

[23JDCA 808]

Japanning

My sense is that Japanning can have different meanings depending on what you're using it on. ...bill
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanning

[bobdo]

Bill,
I believe your right. I don't think the Motor Company
would've been polishing layers to a high gloss back in the day. I can envision the Mop though, ...kidding.
I'd be interested to know from one of our knowledgeable members if they did indeed dip the small parts in a vat of enamel. I had a pair of Footboards that had the rolled edge full of paint on the ends. Maybe they just laid the paint on very heavy. The rolled edge is tricky to cover well with a gun.
Bob

[Ohio-Rider]

My newest project is a 1934VLD which I received in the condition as shown. Except for a few things I’ve already gotten out of the way to get it towards being road worthy. (Tires,brakes,cables,ect..) All of my bikes get ridden on regular bases so I always start my new projects with getting them on the road first.

I definitely would like to preserve the history of this bike but I would hate to see it just rust away as well. So what is a guy to do..? Do I just primer and touch up the bare metal areas that need attention or what..? I do not wish to make this bike less valuable by going in the wrong direction from the start. I hate to bring up value cause that is NOT why I’m into bringing these antique machines back to life. But I feel I would be a fool not to address this subject. Lets face it none of us live forever, and I want my daughters to get the most they can when the time comes for them to get rid of Dads toys.

So take gander guys and tell me what you think. I’m really interested in what the A.M.C.A members think I should do with this machine. Maybe there is no definite answer on what I should do with it and that’s fine with me as well. In any case I’m a long way yet from needing a definite answer cause I haven’t even tried to start it yet. But it does have a fair amount of compression so come next spring….. Well we’ll see. –Steve

[flthead]

restore it ? noooooo

it's got character now , I'll approach a bike like this out and about before I even look at a shinny new restoration .... i have a fugly ugly vfd ,love it when people ask me if i'm gonna restore it so i guess i'm biased for barn fresh unrestored stuff , father time has done another fine job !! now just get 'er ready for next spring,don't matter if it's correct or not.... go have fun

[c.o.]

Steve..........it's a beauty!!!!!! There are plenty of shiney ones out there. It's nice to see a bike with character. I'm with flthead on leaving it alone.........just my two cents worth........

[INLINE4NUT]

Thats a real fine find!!! ..Id like to think if it was mine Id just make it run and do just that run it ! but thats me its yours do as you like and have fun !

[hogluvr]

Dammit Steve, I hate you! I must be living in the wrong part of Ohio to be missing out on all these great bikes!

Seriously, If it was me I'd be doing what you're doing right now, getting it roadworthy to have a little fun. You can always restore it down the road if you decide to, for now she looks beautiful just the way she sits!!

[20scout]

I agree with flthead on being attracted to the originals. It's only original once as they say and it I find it hard to ride a restored one that you want to keep in mint condition. Get'r runn'n and ride!

As far as your question bobdo on the dipping of parts. A few years ago I was talking to another member about production line painting from the teens and twenties. He had found in an old managment manual from that time and it went on to talk about the cost savings by dipping parts. After looking into this further, I found out that on the early 20's Indians, the rear fender and luggage rack was bolted onto the frame and the whole assembly was dipped. I confurmed this by looking on my original 20 scout to see the drips and runs in the paint. I don't see why they would not do this with other parts or brands of motorcycles.

[exeric]

You have a real beauty there Steve. You said you wanted opinions so here's mine; I would do what has to be done to get it running and stopping and then ride the heck out of it and have fun. Then I would restore it. '34 VLs have one of the most beautiful paint schemes H-D ever applied to a motorcycle. What you have now has character but the real gem is just under the surface. I have a good friend who just finished a '34 VL and I have to say it is a stunning motorcycle. Your VL really ties into this topic because you have taken the hypothetical question of what to do with an old motorcycle and brought it to reality.

The reality is, this VL doesn't represent what H-D was doing in 1934, but it does represent what was going on with old motorcycles in 50's, 60's, and 70's. Old bikes like this were languishing in garages and sheds all over America and every once in a while somebody would pull one out and give it a paint brush restoration with some left-over enamel. I'm glad for the bike's sake that they did paint it because it helped preserve it but what did it preserve it for? Was it preserved to leave it butt ugly for eternity, or to preserve it for refinishing. These are your questions to answer Steve. Having said all of this, I have a 1920 J that is all rusty and crusty and that's the way it will stay.

As for H-D paint quality, look at some of the unrestored originals that Jurrasic and others have posted on this forum. H-D's paint quality was incredible and remains very difficult to duplicate. Factory literature from all of the manufacturers state that paint jobs were hand rubbed and they had to be because most of the paint jobs were either dipped (japanning) or brushed. Spray painting was not in common use until the 1920's.

[miker]

34vl

It is great. Fix it and ride it. The 34 was indeed a beautiful bike although so I think restoring it is great too! Do what you want it is yours !

I don' t really think there is a right or wrong when it comes to a "period" restoration or to recover it to the original configuration. JMHO. My 35 was in much worse shape so we had to restore the bike.

Best of luck and ride it good health.

Miker

[jurassic]

decals

one thing i cant figure out is the decals.all the letters are seperate.there is no one decal holding them all together.almost like they were stenciled.