harley's first O.H.V.

[jurassic]

i found this picture in one of floyd clymers scrapbooks ,published in 1944. it shows an 8 valve engine in a loop frame with flat tanks.along with the picture is the following caption.

[jurassic]

1915 8 valve

caption

[jurassic]

1916 8 valve

this is a picture of floyd on the very next page of the same publication on what is generally accepted as the first 8 valve . keystone type frame with motorplates and rounded J style tanks.

[jurassic]

proto

i am not sure ,but in my opinion this looks to be an authentic photo. and if it is then this may be the first harley 8 valve prototype tested in a 1915 style chassis. i know H-D follows this site .do they have any info on this.

[AdminGuy]

When did Indian come out with an 8-valve?

[jurassic]

big base

indian was way ahead of their time.their first 8 valve was 1911.known as the big base,this bike was possibly the first motorcycle made exclusively for racing.over head valve with everything twice as big as the current street bike engine.compared to every other engine in 1911 this thing was definatly the top dog.no throttle ,no clutch ,no brakes. just a kill switch and a bomb on two wheels.this machine single handedly killed board track racing by killing 8 people in new jersey in 1912.only one real engine is known to exist.

[jurassic]

big base

the one original big base engine is in excellent condition.it has been said that oscar hedstrom built every one of the big base engines himself

[HarleyCreation]

Re: harley's first O.H.V.

Originally posted by jurassic
i found this picture in one of floyd clymers scrapbooks ,published in 1944. it shows an 8 valve engine in a loop frame with flat tanks.along with the picture is the following caption.

Good detective work!

I and a few others have known about this "1915" Harley 8-valve photo for quite some time and also believe it is a 1915 model based on the frame, tanks, etc.

For those who don't know, a question of authenticity could arise because nearly every published source states that Harley didn't put an 8-valve on the track until 1916.

However, that's another piece of false history or myth. We have SOLID original primary evidence from the second half of 1915 describing the introduction of Harley's new 8-valve racer at that time. The bike in your first post is almost certainly the 1915 version, but that Clymer misidentified (in 1944) as the same one/type he rode July 4, 1916 at Dodge City. Obviously he was riding the revamped 1916 8-valve with rounder tanks and plate-frame as your second photo clearly shows.

There was an article about 8-valve Harleys in the club mag a couple/few issues ago that repeated the 1916 intro myth. I can't remember the author's name at the moment, but at the very end of his article I provided additional information that the actual intro of the Harley 8-valve was NOT in 1916 as most people think but in the previous year of 1915.

Down the line I'd like to write a fast-paced story about the true 1915 intro of the Harley 8-valve, thereby knocking out another old myth (there are so many!) Then I'd track the 1916 season while giving a blow-by-blow account of how Harley-D blew past Indian in the racing game like a cyclone, er, whirlwind.

When the dust settled the entire competition scene had changed forever and the Indian wasn't laughing anymore.

[Eric @ B.O.S]

Thanks for sharing. It's always great when you see a picture of a 8 valve you never have before. It always surprizes me how obscur/confused HD 8 valve history seems to be. Herb you should write a book about them!
Eric

[AdminGuy]

I find that whole period (20yrs) of racing development history very interesting.

[HarleyCreation]

I agree that the racing period before WWI was interesting and exciting. What makes it extra cool is all the other lesser names still in the game. There certainly could be a book about it, or at least heavy racing coverage in a general 1910-1920 book. A 1915 & 1916 8-valve Harley vs. Indian article would be a good start.

It's always fun finding yet another model that none (or few) of us knew that Harley built. If I were a millionaire and could order up a replica bike, this 1915 Harley 8-valve would be a good candidate. Then have the documentation ready because guys would inevitably argue that Harley never built a 1915 8-valve and that even the fake (replica) was a fake!

[Eric @ B.O.S]

Yes Herb we want an in depth article or essay !!!

Oh and since when does something have to actually existed back then for someone to find and "restore" it today? ha ha

For example here is what alot of people have in mind today when thinking of a HD 8 valve because it came out as a very succesfull scale model and is in Willie G's book but unless I am mistaken, I'm not sure that any 8 valve ever existed in this configuration.

[jurassic]

8 valve

actually i have this picture ,kinda fuzzy ,but it looks to be an original 8 valve with the teardrop style peashooter tanks.the pic looks like it was taken back then on one of those wooden harley benchs that we see in so many early photos. the 1915 harley 8 valve is in the process of being replicated,hopefully by davenport.thats why any other info on the bike would be a great help.the lines of the bike kinda fall apart near the back of the gas tank and the seat post casting.to me it almost looks like the chassis was just one of their regular wrecking crew bikes that they somehow crammed this huge engine into.but then again the tanks dont have pockets ,so the tanks looks like they were made to the frame after the engine was in it.the bike ,in my opinion, does not have a clean factory look.unlike this later 8 valve.

[silentgreyfello]

Very cool '15!!! I now wish I would have bought a set of 8 valves heads when I started restoring mine.

My first thought was they had to lower the loop, but I printed off a picture of it and compared to my bike and the magneto looks to be in the same spot relative to the eccentric.

Here is a theory what they changed!

The tube in the frame directly above the motor angles up from the seatpost. On the factory frames, it is horizontal. It looks as though both top tubes were raised because the front neck casting looks right. Also note the steeper angle on the rear of the tank.

By raising the top tubes, this would have required the down tube to be altered (steeper). It appears they accomplished this by bending the tube, where the stock frame is straight and parallel with the front cylinder. Also, with the neck raised, it seems to me that the fork would have to be lengthened slightly to keep the loop off of the ground.

Bring the bike to Davenport, Jurrassic, and I'll race ya (not for pink slips though).

[Eric @ B.O.S]

Jurassic,
Ok, here is another picture of an 8 valve with a teardrop tank. But notice how this one is a banjo. I dont have sufficient knowledge on these bikes to be able to tell if the bottom end is a banjo or later two cam on the left side picture you posted. This particular picture I'm posting was labelled as a 1919 used by Ralph Hepburn in the book I found it in (old french publication) but I wouldn't bet on that description being accurate. Anyway notice how compact this bike is!
Eric MATHIEU