harley's first O.H.V.

[HarleyCreation]

I agree that it's wise to view this Clymer image/bike with an open mind yet with some caution.

Just a few random notions:

When this photo was published in 1944 PhotoShop tinkering did not yet exist, but has it been artistically enhanced or altered in any way?

Commercial artists were good doing that as old ad-copy and brochures demonstrate. I ask because the top tank line looks "funny" to me. And what is that black object or background behind the bike?

Is anything missing from the bike or is it a runner? Does anything look cobbed together or blantantly wrong? From the dark underside of the front tire and the oil spatter on the rear it looks like it was actually ridden, but you parts experts might see it differently.

If you run a straight-edge along the bottom of the tires, the frame BARELY seems to clear the ground. This baby is low.

It doesn't seem to be a beat-up old thing that had been lying around for years or decades. The tires seem inflated and tight against the rims. Bike in good shape and like it had been out around the track a few times just before the photo was taken.

OTOH I've heard stories about H-D purposely scrapping very old racers and experimentals during periodic clean-ups around the Factory by guys that worked there in the 1920s and 30s.

Was this something Clymer saw and photographed at the Factory at some later date?

As previously mentioned, we do KNOW that Harley had an 8-valve on the track in the latter half of 1915 and it sure is tempting to conclude that this bike was part of that effort. But since the photo was published in 1944 we should be careful before we conclude that as fact.

This thing is a puzzle verging on a mystery.

Any additional observations about this image are welcome.

[jurassic]

15

well,the gas tank on this bike is interesting.the black spot on top is the pillow for the rider,strapped on with a leather belt.the gas tanks are really what make me think.first guess i would say that yes,someone did just put this engine into a 1915 chassis.but all 1915 chassis's had pockets in the tank,quite large ones actually.remember these tanks are the large 300 mile fat tanks with rivits.you can see the rivits in the picture.having made a set of these tanks before ,i can say that they are not at all like the stock tanks ,and a lot of work to make.as i said earlier though the tanks were not modified from there original version,or lengthened for this unusual frame.just no pockets.so someone did go thru the trouble of making this set of "one off tanks",while still adhering to the factory dimensions and factory paint job.just without pockets. i do agree that the bike looks like a runner,everything seems hooked up and functional,and all the components are present.i do believe the thru tank petcock needles have been moved forward,as the dirt traps are between the cylinders instead of behind the engine.had the picture been taken after a race though the bike would certainly have much more oil covering the lower end.the bike does look like it has been used though,notice the baling wire holding up the pipes,the rubber band holding back the compression release.from what i have read these engines had some problem on the dirt tracks ,with the dirt being ****ed into the carb .most of the pics you see have a coffee can around the velocity stack to fix this.this bike doesn't.as far as i can tell there is nothing on the bike that dates after 1915,except the engine.as far as early cobb jobs go this is definatly a mystery

[HarleyCreation]

Is Martin in the House?

A pillow strapped onto the tank!

Where has Martin gone to? It would be interesting to get his slant on this mystery 8-valve job.



PS: Check out my new avatar. Direct from 1913 and what's more fitting now that we've touched upon the racing game?

[jurassic]

@#$%

f**k martin

[HarleyCreation]

Re: 15

Originally posted by jurassic
well,the gas tank on this bike is interesting.the black spot on top is the pillow for the rider,strapped on with a leather belt.the gas tanks are really what make me think.first guess i would say that yes,someone did just put this engine into a 1915 chassis.but all 1915 chassis's had pockets in the tank,quite large ones actually.remember these tanks are the large 300 mile fat tanks with rivits.you can see the rivits in the picture.having made a set of these tanks before ,i can say that they are not at all like the stock tanks ,and a lot of work to make.as i said earlier though the tanks were not modified from there original version,or lengthened for this unusual frame.just no pockets.so someone did go thru the trouble of making this set of "one off tanks",while still adhering to the factory dimensions and factory paint job.just without pockets. i do agree that the bike looks like a runner,everything seems hooked up and functional,and all the components are present.i do believe the thru tank petcock needles have been moved forward,as the dirt traps are between the cylinders instead of behind the engine.had the picture been taken after a race though the bike would certainly have much more oil covering the lower end.the bike does look like it has been used though,notice the baling wire holding up the pipes,the rubber band holding back the compression release.from what i have read these engines had some problem on the dirt tracks ,with the dirt being ****ed into the carb .most of the pics you see have a coffee can around the velocity stack to fix this.this bike doesn't.as far as i can tell there is nothing on the bike that dates after 1915,except the engine.as far as early cobb jobs go this is definatly a mystery

Maybe it is an early cob-job and the existence of real 1915 8-valves (but without photos) gives us a false scent.

The coffee can fix as air-deflector is from Clymer's own account of what happened at Dodge City in 1916. He figured out the problem while testing Otto Walker's 8-valve and Frank Kunce scrounged up a coffee can. Ottaway approved the fix and it remained a Harley practice for years until they changed carbs.

Another thing about the photo itself. This one looks more like a snapshot from somebody's Brownie and not a Factory photo, which usually showed the entire bike and didn't cut off parts of the machine like this one does.

I've also asked somebody else whose opinion I value very much for their view (not Martin).

[Earl]

We shouldn't be too hard on Martin.

Perhaps he's seen the light and has been inspired by all of the great conversation we had about the Chandler, and David City, Nebraska 1908 machines, and by all the great postings to this thread.

Maybe he's been busy in his garage creating an early Harley strap-tank model out of bondo.

[HarleyCreation]

Originally posted by Earl
We shouldn't be too hard on Martin.

Perhaps he's seen the light and has been inspired by all of the great conversation we had about the Chandler, and David City, Nebraska 1908 machines, and by all the great postings to this thread.

Maybe he's been busy in his garage creating an early Harley strap-tank model out of bondo.

Martin has radical views. Sometimes it takes a radical view to see something the rest of us missed or didn't interpret properly. If Martin could get over his angry attitude he might well contribute something positive as he seems involved in the early era.

The Chandler thread was a prize-winner, eh?

[jurassic]

1915 chunk

my painter had this 1915 carcass laying around for years,seems like a good candidate for the project.actually a nice set of 1915 cases,but the cam cover is shot ,and the gear case is later.so i'm looking for these parts if anyone has em.the frame chunk is 15 too and in decent shape.the rear frame castings and top end will be here next week.i also scored a nice repop front fork,which is pretty decent,with a little filing here and there.also a real front hub.it does look like this thing is going to ride pretty low,and i'm already noticing some line up issues.but i cant wait to start cutting.davenport is 9 weeks away.

[c.o.]

Ah man jurassic you find all the good stuff....... Some progress pics and and one's of the finished product would be cool......

Oh, and I realized that Martin was more amusing than anything. But then again he hasn't insulted me..........yet........

Very cool avatar Herb..............

[Kojack]

Originally posted by Earl
We shouldn't be too hard on Martin.

Perhaps he's seen the light and has been inspired by all of the great conversation we had about the Chandler, and David City, Nebraska 1908 machines, and by all the great postings to this thread.

Maybe he's been busy in his garage creating an early Harley strap-tank model out of bondo.

We haven't heard from him lately. Maybe his mommy caught him surfing for porn on the internet and grounded him.

[jurassic]

1916

this is from the american racer,by stephen wright

[jurassic]

1916

this old ad is kinda interesting as mr. wright points out. tanks- any shape ,size or location desirable .clutch,brake,forks,handlebars,frame,finish and equipment optional. this bike has more options than harley's new road toad.

[jurassic]

1916

1916

[jurassic]

1915

1915

[jurassic]

frame parts

first mockup