Why are there threads that say...

[ChiefTwoKicks]

Seems to me the "groups" idea isn't such a good idea. The readership of the forum may include a broad variety of readers, but the main contributors to the forum, maybe 20-25 tops !! Lots of guests, (do these people have a voice?), browsing about, but actually the contributors are a very small portion of the forum readership.

Furthermore, the faithful contributors are seemingly NOT happy with all the jumping through hoops to access much of the content, which they, (the stalwart few), have faithfully and generously have given all of us great insight and pleasure. They feel their contributions are being highjacked and minimized to pander to a larger part of the readership (guests). The changes being made have good intentions, but the push-back is overwhelming and very real. The rancor is coming from the actual contributors, and most of the naysayers are our best and most prolific contributors.

I'd like to see Mike Love take another look at this "updating" debacle. My suggestion would be to poll or survey the readership as to what they want for improvements and clarity, with an emphasis on what the actual contributors have to offer as ideas for improvements. Without asking what our most prolific contributors have to say, there is a serious risk of losing our most important part of this forum.

It isn't about brand specific ideology, it should be about what the contributors will tolerate. There should be shared goals here, not the "weather you like it or not" approach we are subjected to at this juncture. I believe, with this arbitrary "upgrade", and the push-back it has created, it sends a clear message to the moderator.

The risk of losing many of our best contributors because of the desire to improve and expand the readership (mostly "guests"), is shortsighted and without merit. This is a poison pill, and it looks to me like a bad move. Reconsideration seems a better choice for now. If you don't respect the value of the contributors, and pander to the trolls (guests), the forum will end up like all those sites in the past. This may be the beginning of the end.

End of rant. Roger Herbison C2K

[T. Cotten]

Perhaps I should start a Disgruntled Members GROUP?.......

It would certainly make them easier to ignore, Gene!

Why did it take nine years for this to become an 'updating debacle', Roger?

....Cotten

[RichO]

I'll throw these few cents worth on the pile. I wonder if the request for all these changes didn't come from farther up the food chain tn Mike? One post father back or on a like thread ( I won't I.D. the responder} said something about the forum content needed updated to bring in new members. Only one person up the food chain has a vested interest in bring in new member as it justifies his position and income. New members as we old grey beards know don't grow on trees. There are interested parties out there but fewer and farther between than I think he like to believe. Where i used to work they would update the computers every year and it took another year till the new update to make the last one work. It was needed because the vendor not the user said it was needed. Follow the money trail. The AMA is dying or died because a lot of the board members were super corporate and not died in the wool motorcyclist. We inherited some of that mentality. When we replaced Gagan for McClean it became a slippery slope. Some good some bad. I can still ride with my friends, i can still go to meets, I still read the magazine. But just like Harley found out with their Dark Custom program the kids don't buy into the corporate song and dance. Is this a case of the tail wagging the dog. Food for thought.

[T. Cotten]

I'll throw these few cents worth on the pile. I wonder if the request for all these changes didn't come from farther up the food chain tn Mike? One post father back or on a like thread ( I won't I.D. the responder} said something about the forum content needed updated to bring in new members. Only one person up the food chain has a vested interest in bring in new member as it justifies his position and income. New members as we old grey beards know don't grow on trees. There are interested parties out there but fewer and farther between than I think he like to believe. Where i used to work they would update the computers every year and it took another year till the new update to make the last one work. It was needed because the vendor not the user said it was needed. Follow the money trail. The AMA is dying or died because a lot of the board members were super corporate and not died in the wool motorcyclist. We inherited some of that mentality. When we replaced Gagan for McClean it became a slippery slope. Some good some bad. I can still ride with my friends, i can still go to meets, I still read the magazine. But just like Harley found out with their Dark Custom program the kids don't buy into the corporate song and dance. Is this a case of the tail wagging the dog. Food for thought.

What changes, Rich?

The Groups button has been there for nine years.

You people are like old dogs barking at a sheet flapping in the wind.

Go back to ignoring it like all the other useless bells and whistles, Please!

....Cotten

[T. Cotten]

Folks,..

I hope Mike doesn't need to invest much time in this little tempest! What can he do, anyway?

One problem with "Groups" is it is a memory hole.
Who saw this great post?: https://forum.antiquemotorcycle.org/...le-motorcycles or Billy's follow-up https://forum.antiquemotorcycle.org/...-a-pirate-walk ?

The Group is 'Vintage Motorcycle Pics of the Day', but even I missed it in the department of redundancy department.


....Cotten

[RichO]

Mr. Cotton, Dear sir did you at anytime in my statement see me mention the "Group thing"? I think not.! As for your asinine statement, "You people are like old dogs barking at a sheet flapping in the wind". I've never met you so please don't be so liberal with your characterization of me. I was talking about more than the "group thing". Best regards P.S. Here's a hint, The change in the culture of the A.M.C.A. If one hasn't noticed it then they had to have been asleep.

[T. Cotten]

Mr. Cotton, Dear sir did you at anytime in my statement see me mention the "Group thing"? I think not.! As for your asinine statement, "You people are like old dogs barking at a sheet flapping in the wind". I've never met you so please don't be so liberal with your characterization of me. I was talking about more than the "group thing". Best regards P.S. Here's a hint, The change in the culture of the A.M.C.A. If one hasn't noticed it then they had to have been asleep.

I had to quote you Rich,..

The rest of us were discussing "Groups", even if you missed it. And I addressed the whole pack.

Don't look now Folks, but most of the Groups are "owned" by Mike!

And now there is fresh activity. We could have just left it alone, but we picked at it.

....Cotten

[ChiefTwoKicks]

To answer your question directly Cotton, I'm not really sure about why nobody noticed the v bulletin box.

But I do know this website has its base of loyal and knowledgeable contributors. And yes Cotton, my guess is you are one of most prolific donors along with BLB, MAD, GHarper, Steve Swan and many others. At this writing (2:30pm Pacific time) there are 5 identified members and 101 guests !! Thats great !! At least the numbers are up. But the donors are certainly out numbered by the 'group' referred to as guests.

But lets dig a little deeper here. Who are these guests ? Are they new members who simply have not posted anything here on the forum ? Are these guests "seasoned" or veteran M/C
enthusiasts ? Does anyone know ? Sure, we all want new blood. But we also want participation, not a bunch of poaching trolls. Who are these "guests" ?

We,as loyal and dedicated participants give advice and knowledge to all, simply ask and you shall receive. Thats probably the best feature the forum can offer. I know I sure get alot of information here, that I likely wouldn't find elsewhere.

The 'old guard' is becoming resentful, with most of the sage advice taking years (if not a lifetime) to accumulate. The newbie doesn't have to dig for the answers or do their own problem solving. I would say most people don't want to give up the "trade secrets" so easily.

But here's the rub... These so called guests are gleaning the forum banter simply by hitting the keyboard keys, and waiting for a response. Agreed, its a completely different world today. The younger set doesn't to want to work hard for results... just look it up on the compooper !!

C2K

[Steve Swan]

i appreciate the thoughtful conversations taking place, which imho, is necessary, important and healthy.

regardless of why i just now noticed i'm not allowed on some groups is immaterial to the fact that in fact i am not allowed participation in something that creates the impression that my dues don't matter. i didn't like the feeling of being excluded when i went into the Harley group; not so much the Indian group even though i used to be an Indian man. Nor do i like the feeling of being ignored in that it seems so uncharacteristic that Mike Love is not responding to this thread nor to my innocent pm to him.

If members are excluded, blocked, barred, not allowed or whatever from these special groups, then why not make the groups invisible (likely not possible); what you don't know doesn't hurt you.

As far as old dogs barking at sheets flapping in the wind, i got a chuckle from that mental visual; i never heard that analogy and i am an old dog that remembers when Steve McQueen made his visit to Davenport dropping cash in amounts kids like me could only dream about and how from his appearance thenceforward and forever after changed the friends and family atmosphere to Donald Duck dollar signs flapping in the eyes of vendors chasing some get rich scheme.

These "groups" with no explanation why dues paying members are blocked creates feelings of exclusivity, misapprehension, frustration, disappointment and disgust regardless of these groups being in existence for 9 years or the fact that similar feelings impacted our passion for old parts for old bikes by a celebrity visit some 45 years ago. At that particular point in time, imho, the desire to make a little money got amplified x's 10 by greed. So, yeah; disgruntled, maybe. Grumpy, probably. Just calling it the way i see it through the only lens i have to view such things; for sure.

[BigLakeBob]

I'll add a little more opinion, Disclaimer, I'm just a member who appreciates the volunteers that keep the meets going, contribute to all the articles in our fine magazine, and the people that keep this forum going, all for our low membership dues. I'm probably like most, we pay our dues but don't do the leg work. I suspect from the posts the average owner owns a bike from 1950 +/- 25 yrs. I started into bikes before I knew of and owned a computer. But somehow I adapted and learned this new way of communicating like everyone else here did. Second disclaimer, I am just an average member, not one who makes any club decisions or knows anyone who does. But we all learned to use this system, if it is updated, what is wrong with learning that one? In my opinion to say I'm too old to change again is tough. We are all already on here so we must like using this form of communication. I'm not real old, and I relish what older times were, but do we want to go back to letters and stamps(now at $.060 or so) and wait weeks for a response? Or just adapt again. How many people get their parts via the web? So are you saying if your supplier changed their format you would just not order anymore? We all buy parts on line, we can't just wait to get everything from an upcoming swap meet. Again, I am no part of this forums' decisions, but my point is, we have already adapted from letters and stamps, what is one more change? I just think we should just be lucky we still have fossil fuel to run our dinosaurs, and this forum is here for us from all the volunteers that make it happen. Just my 3 cents. Happy Memorial Day to everyone!!

[T. Cotten]

...But lets dig a little deeper here. Who are these guests ? Are they new members who simply have not posted anything here on the forum ? Are these guests "seasoned" or veteran M/C
enthusiasts ? Does anyone know ? Sure, we all want new blood. But we also want participation, not a bunch of poaching trolls. Who are these "guests" ?....

Bots mostly, Roger.

Welcome to the interwebs.

...Cotten
PS: My 'old dogs barking at sheets in the wind' homily meant suddenly noticing Groups became a boogie man to too many of you.

[Steve Swan]

Wondering if this is something only guests can see or interact with ?

[T. Cotten]

Wondering if this is something only guests can see or interact with ?

Bots soak it all up, Steve!

Its only we handful of humans that get confused.

We must adapt, and ignoring the noise is only the first step.

...Cotten

[T. Cotten]

..regardless of why i just now noticed i'm not allowed on some groups is immaterial to the fact that in fact i am not allowed participation...

We should all agree, Steve,

There should be no member exclusions.

Why can I access all groups I tried, but not thee?

Let me know which I missed,

....Cotten

[frichie68]

A bit more explanation on my part. After the initial shock of "NOT ALLOWED", I still think I was not actually "blocked", but rather a fluke of the system. After paying dues for 28 years, blocked??? I was responding to an email invitation to see mail on the AMCA website-but I'm not allowed to see it? But, an hour later or the next day, I clicked on THE SAME EMAIL & it worked perfectly. Not blocked. Same thing has happened maybe 5 or 6 times with the same results.
I sorta remember seeing "groups" in the past, soon forgot about it or ignored it when everything seemed to work the same as it always has.