Year Of Manufacture Cut-Off Date

[Hrdly-Dangrs]

Final Year Of Manufacture Cut-Off Date.

This is a subject that has been going around for quite some time in our club amongst the membership. Perhaps some serious consideration and open debate should be started here and in the Club's magazine.

So if you will here goes:

My opinion is that the AMCA should remain an all Marque inclusive club. A given to me because of the name of the club itself and what I believe the Founders of the AMCA intended all along.

Whats this got to do with a 'Final Year of Manufacture Cut-Off'....well I believe this goes hand-in hand wth the opinions of many members who are at odds of having their club opened up to the many 'modern' Japanese motorcycles (Evos Harleys as well) that some feel are going to invade and take over our magazine content and Chapter meets and namely our Swap Meet fields.

Some have suggested that the 68-69 years were the last real Harley years therefore that would be the appropriate cut-off (I would differ and say mid-seventies would the last of the 'Classics' basing it on the Ironhead Sporties and the last of the Shovelheads and the end of the Classic British motorcycles like Norton and Triumph.

Notice I said 'Classics' cause thats how I view any vehicles from the Fifties thru the Mid-70's. Antiques for me would be 1949 and earlier. But since many members view their Sixties and Fifties bikes as an 'Antique'...I won't argue with them on that point but I would argue for the inclusion of the mid-seventies as a 'Final Cut-Off Date' if one were to be considered.

At some point in the world of motorcycles, the terms 'Modern' took over 'Classic' as 'Classic' took over 'Antique' when referring to all our beloved older bikes.

It is in this period of 'Classic' that I could openly support a 'Final Cut-Off Date' for the AMCA. Its likely the 'Modern' motorcycles of today will not be considered antiques until we run out of oil and they're regulated to sitting in a Museum or the back of your garage...'Hey, when's the last time you saw a bike that ran on gas"....

There are many sixties and seventies Japanese motorcycles that can readily fit into this catagory of old bikes. Supply is there and no shortage of these bikes would be soon coming. Plentiful enough for newcomers to purchase cheaply and restore well into the year 2050. On the other hand, they would not overtake our swap meet fields to the point you're hard press to find similiar year marques like Triumph, Norton, Moto-Guzzi and later Harley Shovels and Ironheads.

At some point the Thirty-Five Year Rule runs out of gas with Antique in its theme. Hell I ventured an arguement to open to 25 years and cut-it off at the Evos....I still have to look over my shoulders at the meets to make sure I don't get clobbered by a flying Indian wrench for that one.... Hrdly Who??

Anyway...lets start the debate and really get down to who and how many Members are in favor of a 'Final Year Of Manufacture Cut-Off Date'.

More precisely...what Year do you believe should be the FINAL eligible Year of Manufacture into the AMCA ....1969, 1970, 1973, 1977 or ?? Or are you happy with the rolling 35 Year Rule as it stands?





Hrdly

[Rod]

I would vote to stay with the 35 year rule. There may be a lot of 35 year old bikes out there, but only the good ones will attract enthusiasts that want to restore, maintain or ride them in our events.

[drhank]

I wholeheartedly agree w/ the 35 year cutoff. A year-of-manufacture cutofff date is the most fair and unarbitrary way to do it.

Hank

[Hrdly-Dangrs]

Note...I edited some of the wording in my first post a little because I'm a bad typist ... ....

But the questions remains the same.... Hrdly

[INLINE4NUT]

well excuse me! talk about diversty and everything else! The way things are set up lets just keep going the way we are?Why cut anyone off??? thirtyfive years from now a 2006 harley or for that matter any MC manufactured before 06 will be up for judging? why cut them off or out of the club???? By then the new Indians they dont make anymore will be up also it should get interesting indeed!
I think we all need to take a step back and do a little more thinking before we make any more mistakes,And Im sorry for any misspelling also but thats the least of the clubs problems!


SEASONS GREETING ONE AND

[Kojack]

I have mixed feelings on the subject. It could be my age but I'll never be able to think of the 70s bikes as "antiques". They'll never have the same feel to them as an old hand shift Harley or a rigid Triumph. Nationality doesn't matter to me a bit. I think Rikuos are really interesting. Honda 750s and Kaw Zs are certainly historic and milestone bikes but they just don't say "antique" to me. Do owners of 70s era bikes even feel the need to belong to an antique club? They blend in well with modern bikes and performance is similar. These bikes have held up well and there are still a lot of them out there. They're not all that rare or hard to find parts for (I'm sure there are a few exceptions). I think the mid 70s would be fine for a cut off point. But only for now. Maybe the best answer would be to hold the cut off point stationary for a few years to allow these bikes to age a little more. Maybe a rolling 40 or 50 year rule. I've heard that furniture isn't considered antique until it's over 100 years old.

[darrylri]

I'm definitely in favor of the rolling 35 year rule.

I've got a 1975 BMW R90S that I anticipate coming under the cutoff in a few years. It was a superbike in its day, but now, any "entry level" bike out performs it, and it's difficult to find the tall, skinny tires it needs. The idea that it doesn't handle or perform in the same class as a rigid, hand shift bike is besides the point; my 1961 BMW and 1953 BMW are both suspended and foot shifted. The same is true with British bikes.

There's never going to be a hard cut off date that will make everyone happy.

More interesting is the social makeup of the club. Because most members are interested in American bikes from before the 70s, the club will almost surely continue to cater its events for that audience. When the membership begins to turn over to people who see "antique" differently, then and only then will it really change.

I was at the SoCal club's Death Valley Run a couple months ago on my 1961 BMW. If there were 10 bikes there that weren't American brands, I'd be surprised. But that's because this is what the club rides. It didn't matter at all that there was a Suzuki on the fall magazine cover.

[T. Cotten]

Don't look now, but it is a lot harder to restore a modern machine than one made before self-destructing plastic hardware and bird's nest wiring harnesses became the norm.

And the memory of judges will be a lot clearer as well, although the variety of models and volumes of documentation will certainly make judging complicated!

Keep it simple, keep the status quo.

....Cotten

[Paquette]

The fact is that the folks who come after us oldtimers will have bikes that while we can debate vintage vs antique vs classics will be 35 years old. My humble opinion is that 35 years should be the standard. I own a 1971 Fl that will be classified as an antique in 2006. I will , however, never have it judged because I have set it up to look like an early Hydroglide and that was my choice. As we are a club that restores vintage bikes it is only natural that there will be marquis that we don't care for. Think about the Harley vs Indian wars. What would the original owner of a " Silent Gray Fellow" or a Model J think about the 1948 Panhead becoming an antique motorcycle. I think we are wasting too much time and energy on the subject. We are the Antique Motorcycle Club of America and while the Japanese and European bikes are not my cup of tea, I respect all who ride in the wind and enjoy life outside the cage.

[Paps]

I agree with the 35 year limit but I would like to see a catagory range in terms of era. Example....1900's, 1920's, 1930's, all the way up to the 35 year limt. Paps

[KNUCK]

I am for a cut off date. I don't plan to be buried with my bike, so it will be around for others to enjoy. We don't need to add more bike years to the club for fear of running out of anitque, classic, vintage or what ever you want to call these cycles.

GM recently stopped making the Camaro. The Camaro clubs in this country will be doing just fine. They won't have to start allowing the Chevrolet Geo or Cavalier in their club just to have more members and cars.

Like I said before, why do we need more than 10,000 members anyway? Once you get into the early to mid 70's it's a cookie cutter who cares bike. When someone comes to a meet are they going to say, Wow look at that 4 cylinder..... Goldwing! NOT!

Just my opinion........

[rickgeo]

cut-off date

This whole debate has gone on to long & is becoming counter-productive.Did I read correctly that there were 8 new youth members recruited at Davenport? Be still my heart!
We're sending the wrong message out there,& by the time we wake up,we'll be saying what a great club it once WAS!

Rick

[darrylri]

Originally posted by KNUCK
When someone comes to a meet are they going to say, Wow look at that 4 cylinder..... Goldwing! NOT!

Actually, the original GL-1000s were introduced as naked bikes, and they're pretty interesting to look at. Historic in a way, too, as it forced the designers at BMW, who had been considering a flat four to get more oomph than the boxer twins could produce, to develop the "flopped four" K bike design instead -- they didn't want to appear to be following another design.

Anyway, one man's meat is another's poison. Or, de gustibus non disputandum est.

I think the argument about Camaro clubs is not relevant; a Camaro club was started for Camaros. The BMW R90S club is not too interested in other BMWs, even though the R90S was only made from 1974-76. The Antique Motorcycle Club of America claims to be interested in all motorcycles that qualify with its rules of what is antique. That is the basis on which I joined.

[Lonnie]

I had a very interesting discussion with one of the AMCA officers up in Jefferson a few years back - a long-term member (maybe even older than Louie). He was reminiscing about the agony many members had when they considered the impact of allowing the Brit bikes to enter the club as antiques years ago. The fear was that they would overrun the fields. As we can all see, such is not the case, for sure. And I doubt it will occur with the Jap bikes. Only those interested in the older bikes (yes, Japanese) will get involved. Those that want to go fast or tour in their water-cooled comfort will do just what they do now, visit our meets out of idle curiosity.
Regarding the long-term outlook for the club and our antique bikes, it is obvious that these old hand-shift bikes are being priced out of the reach for many, with some knucks reaching the 40's and primo rigid pans in the mid 20's or higher. Without the influx of new generations, would our meets become just like Pebble Beach is for antique autos? I'd say, very possibly.
So, bring 'em all on. Perhaps some young feller looking to step up to a "real" bike will cash out his Japanese collection and buy me out when I am too feeble to know my own name.
Lonnie