obscure 1920's four for sale

[PRG]

Howdy chaps.

with the early Detroit style intake manifold and Schebler carburetor. Seems like a backward move to me.

Claim to know nothing about early machines but a 3 bolt carb on what appears to be a 2 bolt adapter plate with nice fresh gasket looks as if that Schebler is a late fitment of convenience/drivability over the original possibly more rare and cantankerous, or on the other hand rare and better performing.

[Steve Swan]

Howdy chaps.

with the early Detroit style intake manifold and Schebler carburetor. Seems like a backward move to me.

Claim to know nothing about early machines but a 3 bolt carb on what appears to be a 2 bolt adapter plate with nice fresh gasket looks as if that Schebler is a late fitment of convenience/drivability over the original possibly more rare and cantankerous, or on the other hand rare and better performing.

maybe Patria's contract agreement with Henderson was to make some aspect of engine design different than Henerson...?

[exeric]

This is the standard Henderson Deluxe intake set-up. The Zenith side draft carb was used, but other side draft carbs would work, and were used. I don't know much about engine breathing, but this always looked more efficient to me.

Copy of Henderson-1922-De%20Luxe-3.jpg

[exeric]

maybe Patria's contract agreement with Henderson was to make some aspect of engine design different than Henerson...?

I kind of doubt that because Schwinn was well aware of the Henderson motors that Heath was converting for suicidal airplane use. I think old man Schwinn figured a sale was a sale

[JoJo357]

Moto Patria: The first units were Fatherland Motorcycle Motorcycle exports Henderson (USA), for manufacturing tariffs in Spain were more economic to export to the tax advantages that they had. So the first models were almost 99% foreign motorcycle except that some modifications were getting motorbikes.
Besides the above models-(Moto Patria Motorcycles commissioned with Villiers & J.A.P. Motors)-during the 20 Homeland he manufactured some units equipped with high performance ACE 4 - cylinder engines 998cc or 1.263cc. Worth mentioning the six - cylinder motorcycle that appears in the picture below. Some Internet sources describeit as a prototype motorcycle Patria 1921, but less apart from these data, I found no other information to provide some light on this enigmatic motorcycle.
Anuncio de Motos Patria.jpg
Moto Patria 1263cc 1922.jpgMoto Patria 1263cc engine with ACE, 1922
Moto Patria 6 cilindros 1921.jpgPatria 6-cylinder bike?, 1921
*M.A.D.*

[JoJo357]

Moto Patria 350cc 2T 1929.jpg
Moto 350cc 2T 1929. Patria Motorcycle Museum in Barcelona*(Villiers)

Patria 350 cc 4T 1930.jpgMoto 350cc 4T Patria 1930*(J.A.P.)
Emblema Motos Patria.jpg**FOUNDER MOTO PATRIA: ANTONI SERRA i SIAM
The Above Models mentioned in the previous description-*(Moto Patria Motorcycles commissioned with Villiers & J.A.P. Motors).
Motos Patria was the largest motorcycle manufacturer in Spain before the Civil War. The company was founded by Antoni Serra i Siam in 1922 and was in operation until 1936, when production ceased because of the Spanish Civil War. During this period, Motos Patria produced in their workshops Badalona motorcycles and motorcars self-produced with English import engines of Villiers and JAP brands.
During the early years, Patria manufactured two light and elegant models, with entretubos deposit, as marking the canons of design time. One of them was riding a four - stroke engine 175cc JAP source, while the other was offered with two - stroke engine of 250cc Villiers and brand. The gearbox, three speed, was the Sturmey-Archer home in both cases, while it TRANSMIT n was by chain model 4T and 2T in the belt.
Later, around 1930, Patria Motos developed a wide range of models with engines two stroke 200cc and 350cc Villiers and four - stroke 350cc and 500cc JAP.
Motocicleta Patria-Heraldo deportivo.jpg292620_10150968108898794_2124503344_n.jpg
*M.A.D.*

[exeric]

The first 2 pictures show Patria motorcycles with Henderson Deluxe motors. I have to wonder if the top, and middle pictures are the very same motorcycle, photographed at different times in history; unless they did indeed make 12 of this style. The text of the above post is difficult to understand, and not really accurate as the ACE engine is 75" (1,229 c.c.), and a Henderson Deluxe motor is 79.4" (1,301 c.c). I think the Patria is going to remain enigmatic, and sketchy unless someone comes up with an original brochure, or data sheet. Don't get me wrong, I love the Patria and think it's a beautiful motorcycle. Like everyone one here; I get techno-nerdy about motorcycles I like, and want to know more.

[JoJo357]

You're correct Eric, the text in the above posts you've mentioned, were lifted verbatim from a Spanish Moto Patria site. Something is always lost in the translation from Spanish to English, or any other foreign language transfer for that matter. But, it's at very least a start for a legitimate discussion and or...Argument-haha. Or, additional legitimate information on the elusive Moto Patria! Besides, the article states that 'He', as in Moto Patria founder-Antoni Serra i Siam, modified the Ace units per...'High-Performance'. Another interesting fact is the 1921 6 Cylinder that preceded the 1922 4 cylinder Ace/Henderson copycat.
*M.A.D.*

[Steve Swan]

The first 2 pictures show Patria motorcycles with Henderson Deluxe motors. I have to wonder if the top, and middle pictures are the very same motorcycle, photographed at different times in history; unless they did indeed make 12 of this style. The text of the above post is difficult to understand, and not really accurate as the ACE engine is 75" (1,229 c.c.), and a Henderson Deluxe motor is 79.4" (1,301 c.c). I think the Patria is going to remain enigmatic, and sketchy unless someone comes up with an original brochure, or data sheet. Don't get me wrong, I love the Patria and think it's a beautiful motorcycle. Like everyone one here; I get techno-nerdy about motorcycles I like, and want to know more.

are the forks on the Patria same as something else, or are they unique to Patria. they sort of look like the forks Hanlon's used on their aberration.

[exeric]

The rigid fork is straight like an ACE. The Henderson rigid fork is curved. The spring fork is unique, and more like a '22 Harley, but not really Both Hen, and ACE had a cartridge type spring fork where very heavy springs were contained inside a cylinder. A friend of mine had a Henderson Deluxe and didn't think his spring fork was moving. He took the bike for a ride and put his finger between the clevis, and cylinder top to feel if the clevis rod was moving. He lost his fingernail with that experiment

[ryan]

Thanks for the picture Steve, I saw one, with a sidecar, in an early Nazi film and gave up trying to find the maker. It was only in the film for about 30 seconds and was parked on a street in Germany.

[ryan]

Update: I just looked at the bike again in the film and the motor, light, frontend and fenders look the same, but the frame and tank look shorter. The bike looks to be from the 20s. So I guess it is probably not the same make since there were only 12 made.

I do know it is not a Nimbus nor any American made four. I don't know of any other, European manufactured, four cylinder except for Nimbus.

[JoJo357]

The FN Four, manufactured in Liége, Belgium by Fabrique Nationale from 1905 until 1923, was the world's first production inline-4 motorcycle.It was also, at 40 miles per hour (64 km/h), the world's fastest production motorcycle from 1911 until 1912.

The motorcycle was developed in 1904, tested late that year, and had its public debut at the 1905 Paris Motorcycle Show. It was a commercial success upon release, with production increasing over its twenty-year run.
https://youtu.be/V3Y2TMAPwGc
P1060496.jpg
*M.A.D.*

[Steve Slocombe]

'Pluricilindriche' by Ing. Stefano Milani has a page on the Patria. Translating from the Italian, it refers to an article in 'Motor Cycling' from 29 July 1925 and says the bike was fitted with a Henderson engine and had three speed and reverse transmission. The company was based in Badalona, Spain, and also made 275 cc two stroke engined bikes fitted with three speed Sturmey-Archer gearboxes. There is a left side view of what looks like a brochure illustration of the four.