Informal Survey

[rousseau]

indianut. I copyied and pasted this from your post.

" I am just willing to bet that if were up to a vote the overwhelming majority of Members would like for the club to be exclusive to American Motorcycles. "

So we can assume from this that you don't want any Euorpean bikes also. No more Triumps, Bsa, Ducati, Norton. How about the the Italian made harley Sprint? No more Hummers.They were a direct copy of the German DKW.
My point is , say what you really mean. You don't want any Japanese motorcycles.

Barry said "Lets keep it 100% american"

I want to go on record as saying I am a motorcycle enthusiest. I love all motorcycles. I will enjoy seeing any brand that is 35 years old that has been restored or drug out of some ones shed.
Whats wrong with a Trail 70 or a CB160. The Suzuki X6 Hustler was on the cutting edge in its day.
After reading the posts in this thread I can only believe that some of our members have personal agendas not in the best interest of the AMCA.

[T. Cotten]

The dirty word that has been invoked here is "politics".

"PC" has nothing to do with this. But internal politics does.
Those who do not participate in Chapter proceedings (Such as myself!) have no foundation for whineing about the 'fashion' of the national organization, nor the Chapters themselves.

The 'powers that be' have decided to look forward, although most of us consider the foundation of our interests to be the Past.

Apparently there isn't enough income from the growing thousands of members to secure the organization in the future. Baby-boomers are doomed, so a new core is being sought. After an in-my-face refusal to allow my Knuck into Period Modified, I tend to agree that change for the sake of change may be healthy, but I wonder if the direction should be random.

This organization was formed to preserve the past, not to revise it.
Yet all sight of that agenda can be lost to bickering over personal tastes and the fashion of the masses.
Members must keep an open mind to the fact that the 35 year rule will remind us yearly that we are getting older, and the machine's will always seem to get younger. Excluding vintages or marques would be lying about history.

It is a concern, however, that the organization may dilute itself to a hollow core.

For example:
The Davenport Meet poster is (forgive my personal judgement of taste) a horrid invitation to a biker party. I'm ashamed to post it upon my shop door.
You have to look d*mn hard to see the word 'vintage' attached to races, but otherwise the rad graphic of a ghoulish badgirl clinging to a 'commando' in search of glory cut short my collecting of annual posters of the event.
Often I invite interested citizens and their families to attend, but displaying that poster would kill that quick.

Since I do not participate in my own Chapters decisions (120 miles one way), the poster is as much my fault as anyones. Yet it certainly graphically represents a trend toward commercializing the organization into just another national 'club'.

What's next: colors? That would sell big time! It worked for HOG.


...T. Cotten
Chief BlackHawk Chapter member
AMCA #776

[Pete Gagan]

Rest assured, gentlemen, (and ladies), if I wasn't listening to you, I wouldn't be answering this thread.
The Suzuki put on the cover by our editor was no doubt triggered by the Perkiomen Chapter's rather gutsy move by featuring Japanese machines at their National Meet this year. As most of you know, the Oley Meet normally features very early machines and parts, more so than most others. Also, the Perkiomen Chapter is one of our oldest.
35 years old and older are the AMCA rules, and every year we have a new batch. Unfortunately, if we were American only, given the fact that the last real Indian was built in 1953, we would eventually become a one make club, (Harley Davidson), which was never the intention. As it is, very few pre-war bikes are used on our road runs anymore.
Believe me, I sympathize with your thinking. I attended the Mid Ohio AMA swap meet this year, which features 95% Japanese MC's and parts, with 1000 vendors. It all looked the same to me. Now I know how my wife feels when I drag her through one of our swap meets!
Take another look at the picture. Look past the Suzuki and focus on the smile on the guy's face. Thats really what our hobby is all about. Its not all bad.
Pete Gagan

[koanes]

There has obviously been a little push by the folks that put the magazine together to test the waters here. Many articles on more modern machinery in the last couple of years. And alot of people were threatened by the suggestion to change eligibilty to something less than 35yrs. I am definately opposed to that, and the whole "bigger is better" idea. 35yrs old seems reasonable, and although I am not happy about the prospect of seeing rows of 70's Japanese machines lined up at the meets, I'll adjust to it and show the owners and restorers of the these machines the same respect I allow for anyone else. And truth be known, I love motorcycles, no matter what brand, if it even looks like it will run, I'll ride it! If you Indian riders can't handle that, go stand in the corner by yourselves, us Harley riders always thought you were a little goofy anyway.

[Paps]

Thanks for making my day Cotton !! I have felt old physically for a long time now but now I feel ancient mentally ! LOL !! This topic, both now and in the past, has made me look back to my younger years when as little as 5 years seemed like forever. I guess you could say 35 years now looks like a blink of the eye to me now. My boys will be talkin automobiles and I will hear them speak things like "old clunker" "Realic" " and other such descriptions. I then learn they are speaking of 80's and 90's model automobiles. I guess if these machines are this old to them, then a 35 year old scooter must be stone age to them. I own an 82 Buick which I refer to as the beast. I could never think of it as anything classic but the younger men around here do. It's close to 25 years old and will probably make it to 35 before needing any major engine or drive train work. Body is fair too. This beast is my run deer over machine. It represents an I don't care about it vehicle other than it always starts, always goes, and always stops. The rubber on it has more value to me than the ride itself. Point being.... 70's and 80's Harley's don't appear old to me either. They hold much more value to me than the other makes and models do but they still don't provoke an urge in me to return them to a just out of the factory state. The thought of cutting one up and fabbing / welding it into something else doesn't pinch a nerve in me either. Seems preference in combination with age is the key to all of our opinions on this subject. Evaluating myself, this seems to be the case for me.... Paps

[MTroy]

Suzuki

I also was (yes a little negatively) surprised to see the Suzuki on the cover.

But not enough to make a big stink. Maybe there should be an American-only sect. Ultimately, it will probably all be driven by demand.

So, count me as not totally opposed to "outsiders".

[LouieMCman]

When I received the new magazine I was not thrilled to see the cover as Japanese bikes are not my style, so I looked for the caption and noted that it was at least 35 years old, so I have no problem with it. I personally would love to see pre-30 bikes on the cover every issue, but would that offend the owners of 40’s, 50’s, and 60’s bikes? I can’t understand why people seem to be threatened by the coming Japanese bikes but I do remember about 20 years ago when the masses (same people?) were threatened by the coming of the British bikes into the 35-year range. My guess is the Japanese bike will become acknowledged in time as the British bikes are now. One thing I have learned in my moderate age is that everyone is proud of what they have, so why begrudge anyone for what he find interesting or what he can afford? I actually feel sorry for someone who is really interested in getting into this hobby, hmmm let me see what to buy….oh ya how about an Indian 4…no I would have to sell my house…maybe a Harley Knucklehead…no would have to sell my car and truck….how about a Indian Chief…no it’s $10,000 for that pieced together basket case. Maybe an old Jap bike ??? No then nobody in the AMCA would talk to me…………….

Louie

[Kojack]

Personally I like all motorcycles. When I was in grade school I had to walk past the BSA/Royal Enfield dealer and fell in love with the chrome tanks. I’ve had several British rides and even served as president of the Ohio Valley BSA Owners Club for a year. I’m still a member. My first bike was a 450 Honda. I bummed rides on all of my friends’ Honda and Suzuki fours over the years, while I rode a Sportster. No brand loyalty for me, I love ‘em all. That said, I really don’t like the changes the club is going through. Pete mentioned the AMA Vintage Days event. I’ve been there several times over the years, 2004 being the latest. In my opinion it’s just too big now. Traffic and parking are miserable. The swap meet (my main interest) seems to be a huge collection of junk. I can barely cover it in a day. There are 3 or 4 motorcycle salvage yards in my area where I can find that stuff if I need it. Part of the problem may be that the AMA has a very loose definition of “Vintage”. As near as I can tell, it means anything with two wheels. But, even if they had a more rigid definition, how would they police it? I think that in the next few years, as more Japanese vendors become involved, the AMCA’s 35 year rule will become unenforceable and meaningless. It’s currently a little ragged as is, with later model Harley and British parts showing up pretty regularly. I’ve always felt that smaller, more specialized clubs are the way to go. There’s already a Vintage Japanese club and several British marquee clubs. They may not have as slick a magazine as the AMCA but they’re still doing quite well. Trying to be all things to all people may be getting a few more members but it’s obviously unpopular with the core members. Besides, will these “modern” Japanese, European and even American cycles ever have the same antique feel as a hand shift bike or a rigid framed Triumph? As more and more late model (to me) bikes show up at AMCA meets I’ll no doubt lose interest and drop out. Hopefully, by then, someone will have started an antique motorcycle club.

[jww]

35 years is 35 years Guys! I don't agree with "everything" regarding our Club, nevertheless I haven't forgotten the previous push to reduce the 35 year rule. The Club Leaders listened to us then, I think their listening to us now. Change gives us all more options, its a matter of personal preference as to which ones we like. We all take pride in the ownership of our fours, chiefs, knucks. etc.....and even though marketability is not our priority of ownership, just an opinion here, we must get young folks involved in our circle or we just might out live the interest and marketability in our marque brands. I'm not fond of Honda's, but odds are the average Honda owner is interested in my four, chief or knuck. Give 'um a chance and lets see how much they add to the club, what do we have to loose. Besides....."You meet the nicest people on a Honda" LOL
johnny

[indianut]

Everybody keeps talking about when they started the Club and meant for it to include all Motorcycles. That is kinda like when the country was getting started and the Founding Fathers wrote the Law of the Land. They had no way of knowing what this world would be like in 200 years. They did pretty good, but there are exceptions! The Founding Fathers of the AMCA could not even begin to imagine the importation of THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of cheap, disposable, Japanese motorcycles! You can bet that if they had, there would have been some sort of Provisions made to deal with it! So yes, I guess the bottom line as far as I am concerned is that the European bikes were basically always unique over here and due to their overal l mediocre quality were never brought over here by the thousands. So the idea of a European Invasion into the Club will probably never happen simply due to the very limited number of machines in this Country. However the Japanese Motorcycles, while somewhat Historically important, will never in my opinion, and after reading the responses to my opinion poll, never in the opinion of MOST of my fellow club members, be considered worthy of the AMCA. It is also not a matter of money. Any Motorcycle Enthusiast with enough ambition, who isn't afraid to get his hands dirty, can build and ride A True Classic Motorcycle. BTW rousseau Hummers were built in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. And, maybe the AMCA has an agenda that is not in the best interest of a MAJORITY of its members. One other thing to think about. Several years ago I recieved the Long Distance award at Waseon, for riding a 1937 Chief from Florida via Mass. to Indiana. Very soon a Gold Wing could get that same award, and not to take anything away from ANY long-distance rider, I certainly do not think that anyone envisioned that scenario! The cool thing about being Dedicated to Vintage Motorcycles is the part about doing all the things that go along with the vehicle. Kick-starting, tinkering with the points, carb, and chain, etc.
One last note. The state of Florida just changed it's Horseless Carriage permanant registration from a 35 year old limit to 1946 or earlier because it had gotten to the point where a MODERN VEHICLE, comparatively speaking; i.e. a 1965 Mustang, could get Horseless Carriage status. I think the AMCA should set a year limit and I think that should be 1969. That year is considered by most to be the last REAL H.D. and also the last Good B.M.W. This would also allow the few Japanese bikes that may be considered Historically Important.

[c.o.]

Well indianut, I think that I would have to agree with you on most of your points. After all I would say that there is a good portion of our club that joined it so that we could enjoy the "Antique" in the AMCA. I really don't have a problem with what other people want to ride. I do believe in each to their own and don't begrude anyone for wanting to ride something different than what I would. I did however join the club a few years ago hoping to link up with like-minded folk that had an interest in the type of bikes that I liked ie(early american motorcycles). I was kind of alarmed when I noticed in the past year or so that bikes that I was not interested in were infiltrating our magazine. Now I don't need to run on about the Japanese motorcycle invasion as it has been covered quite extensively in this forum, but it really is I guess why this thread started. If the 35 year rule is written in stone, then I guess so be it. But I really can see why some guys are getting a little hot about the change. Especially long time members that have come to expect to seeing earlier iron. Like I said I won't throw stones at a fellow for riding foreign bikes, but it just isn't my cup of tea(although I can be accused of having a Brit bike in my little shop!) I do think however that anyone that couldn't see the protesting coming was fooling themselves. Antique motorcycle nuts are generally traditionalists to the core and one can't expect them to swallow the transition easily! Everyone does have a different perspective and while I wouldn't be opposed to seeing the odd early Japanese machine, I would be a little shocked the day that a show was dominated by this type of bike. It could and may very well tick enough of the early guys off that we won't see the really old stuff being shown at the same venues and that would be a real shame! I do have to admit though that the fellow on the Suzuki does look like he's into his machine and that is good to see. I just hope that these situations don't get so watered down as to divide the club, after all it's the early stuff that this club was initially based on.

[pninaud]

What is the AMCA's intention?

I am 44 years old, got hooked on old american bikes when I was 17. It started for me because I hung out at a smelly, dirty hole-in-the-wall motorcycle (chopper) shop, instead of going to high school. The shop owner took a liking to me and became my big brother. He rode a 48 chief, and helped me get my first Indian. We made friends with the old-time collectors in Washington and Idaho and I will never forget the smell of old motorcyles (oil and leather) as we walked in to their dimly lit basements.

These old collectors were re-living their pasts and allowing us into a very private and personal part of their lives. Naturally, the machines they had were American, with an odd british bike, or two, for novelty. I naturaly felt that they were passing the torch to me - to preserve and enjoy the motorcyles of their youth.

Japanese bikes do not stir my soul or imagination. The AMCA should preserve a past that has meaning to the members and an important place in history. How meaningful are Japanese bikes to the members? Do Japanese bikes have an important place in history? Do Japanese bikes water-down the intention of the AMCA?

I bet the person on the cover of our new issue has a very personal story behind restoring and riding their Suzuki, that has resulted in a great smile! I would not want to deny him access to the AMCA.

Oh yea, I did go to college and ended up on the law-and-order side of biking!
Patrice.

[INLINE4NUT]

Well just leaving for Davenport and was talking to a few fellow members of the club about all this stuff and they feel the same way and plan to make it known,as a form of protest THEY would like to see members rip off the front page of the present mag and send it to the club officals! I said I think its a little radical BUT maybe someone would notice them
I have decided as my form of protest I will only be taking pics of imports this year to post for all members that arent as fortunate as I to go to Davenport,of course Ill post them for all to enjoy!!!

[bikejunk]

If we judge the amca by the forums pre 16 and other american also is a big no show . at a lot of amca show you can count the really eary bikes running around on the field on one hand,so 10 years from now will it be a bunch of crotch rockets on the road runs and even less of the early stuff because we cant keep up? Ps. all my stuff is pre 1920 british so I am used to people even at amca show saying Too bad it isnt a harley ect.lets face it most of our shows are 95% 1946-50s HDs+ Indians so thats what most people want but its nice to see other stuff too

[Hrdly-Dangrs]

Well, as far as I'm concerned, the Club's Rule of 35 years or older is the final say. Doesn't matter what Make or Model bike your complaining about. Rule says 35 years or older...period.

I'm not a big fan of Japanese motorcycles..though I have owned and restored a few over the years...most notebly a couple of mid sixties Kawasaki 650 Pre-Unit vertical twins that were designed and based on the old BSA's A-10. An interesting bike and I believe Kawasaki Heavy industries first Big Bike imported to the U.S. Still haven't seen any at the AMCA meets yet. Unless your so opposed to Japanese motorcycle themselves...I'll bet you'll stop and check out this historically significant bik and talk to the owner.

Anyway....If a Dues paying member wishes to restore, show, have Judged a Japanese motorcycle that meets the 35 Year Rule...what do you care?? Your going to be too busy, showing, judging and riding your 1930's Indian, Harley or ?? American motorcycle at the same meet anyway...right? And of course, you'll bring lots of Old American parts and basket cases and motormobilia with you to the Meet too, with a sign or two stuck in the ground that say...LOOK...old Indian parts....

Point is, show up at the meet, vend it, and bring your old American bike....We sure would have liked to see you guys at the Colonial meet this year.....I was there....Didn't see a lot of the faces that used to come out to our Meet..... Oh yeah...it wouldn't be because you couldn't make money right...I mean...you go because of the Old American motorcycles....not because of the capital gains like those Japanese riders.vendors that are taking over....right?

Hrdly