Treasure Hunting Stories

[c.o.]

Here's another thought on the pre-1930 bikes. I just finished a real cool story on a bike find. It is in the spring 1995 issue of The Antique Motorcycle. It's the Arrow in a tree story that Dottie Wood wrote on Charlie Smith's 1914 Arrow. Dottie wrote it so vivid that she takes you right along with Charlie on his find. It is a truly inspiring story. There is also a real neat article on Rich Schultz's 1912 M-M, and how he felt it was time to pass it on. It left me thinking are there any new stories out there that people may want to share on this page? Did Charlie finally find a motor for his machine and where is it today? The hunt and the find and how you wrestled it home are a big part of the mystique that surrounds are beloved machines. It would be nice to hear if anyone out there is interested in sharing a few treasure hunting stories. It'll help the spring fever pass. What have you got?

[I.D.]

Milton Wensels gold mine

This is a reply to the treasure hunt stories, I have many but the one that sticks out in my mind and I,m sure a lot of the East coast boy,s will know what I,m talking about. Back in the 60,s I was hunting Knucklhead and Panhead Harley,s with a vengence ,mainly to chop them (gasp).I had been hearing about an old dealer in Pottstown that had a ton of old scooters hanging around his shop and since my bike finding expereinces usually were of the one old bike in a garage variety I decided to take a trip down to Pottstown on a Sunday to see for myself what was up.When I got there ,It was your typical old Pa Harley Dealer in an old rundown town (two story row house with a shop in the alley.Where it differed from what I was used to was about 60-70 original Knuckles,pans, 45,s etc parked under tarps out in the open all the way around the house and into the small fenced yard in back and back up the other alley on the other side of the house.At this point my adrenaline was pumping pretty hard,but the best was yet to come.nosin around the street in back of the dealership I noticed what looked like handlebars thru the small paned windows of an old manufacturing building,sure enough old Milton had a warehouse back there.Looking thru one of the many broken panes my eyes bugged out at Harleys stacked two and three high on top of one another complete with speedo,s and all the jewelry we hunt for still on them.Dealing with Milton was quite a challenge but I eventually got a 37 Knuckle,38 UL,47 el from him as the $175 apiece was a little more than my meager buget could afford.A buddy of mine Jeff Carlton went to work there and I guess Milton had little storage buildings all over Pottstown.Jeff got Billy Hubers WR and we hillclimbed it outside of New Hope in the 70,s it was a screamer.That,s my story and I,m stickin to it. I.D.

[c.o.]

Excellent story I.D.! You don't hear of those kind anymore do you? $175 a piece eh? Holy Cow! Well, the ball is rolling! Next!

[INLINE4NUT]

Well here goes!
This one isnt quite as good as IDs but none the less a fairly good story! Here and Maine Ive never seen a truely large find but weve had plenty of GOOD finds through out New England, sometime ago in the late 70s I got a call from a friend who knew of a farmer in a small town he had a 38 knuckle and getting along in years wanted to sell it, but dont bother going if you had long hair,he hated Hippie types!Well my hair was short so I and a friend took the trip,about 45 mins from my house,knocked on the door and sure enough he had a knuckle, we went into what looked like an old chicken shed and the MC was there in all its glory! The only problem being the wood floor had rotted and the wheels were rite up to the axles buried in the dirt! Other than that the bike was all there complete and fairly nice so I asked the price which was 4500 dollars which was quite a bit of money and seeing the speedo wasnt in the bike as a bargining oint I said thats a lot of cash for a bike thats doesnt even have a speedo!Well he said lets take a walk down in the field Ive got and old car that may have what your looking for! In the back of a pretty nice 1955 chevy was 5 speedos one for the knuck,4 that looked like they belonged to panheads!He said take all of them,apond further questioning we left with the knuck and 4 speedos and the 4 panheads they belonged to,they were in another shed!pretty sad looking but still 5 bikes for 4500...not a bad deal!!!Sometimes it pays to listen to your elders!!!!

[I.D.]

Lewis timms goes out of business

Shortly after learning of Milton,s pile ,I was delivering speed parts to all the hot rod shops in the New England area,I can,t begin to remember all the motorcycles I found in that area,but the other large pile I came across was on this route I was driveing.It was my practice to stop at all the Harley dealers to ask about old motorcycles usually with no good leads.One day I stopped in the new Dealer in Carmel NY ,who didn,t have much but there was a 47 Knucklhead engine leaning up against the wall ,so I asked what the story was on it.They told me that it had come from someplace in South Carolina and could probably find out where.The next week on the route I couldn,t wait to get back there.They told me that it had come from a dealer in Greenville South Carolina .I hear what you guy,s were saying about long hair and that whole thing as I was your typical Hippie punk in those day,s.The South was a different place then also and potentially dangereous so it was with great care that I tracked the path of the knuckle motor down.I got the phone # and called old Louis up.Well as it turned out Louis was a great guy a true southern gentleman and kick to talk to, and was getting ready to retire.The conversation went like this, I asked him if he had any more of those old Knucklehead motors? I wish typing this I could described his South Carolina Accent ,but in his best southern draul he said " son if you come down here in your truck I,ll load it till the axles break".O course I was choking and gasping on the phone but it was,nt because I was sick but because my heart had jumped up into my throat( all us rust collectors know this feeling).I quickly made arrangements to go down there to see if he was BS me.This could get to be a long story but to cut it short Lewis had been going around FOR A LONG TIME buying up Harley,s at police surplus sales and the like to scrap out the aluminium.When I got to his dealership in Greenville I was a little dissappointed as I didn,t see much there .It was then that I discovered the old parts were at his farm in Anderson.After business that day we went there to inspect the rust.As we drove up I noticed a rather peculiar site as Louis had all the motorcycles hung in the crotches of old apple trees in the orchard probably 5 0r 6 as I remember,also hung in the trees were about a 100 gas tanks hung on wires,15-20 assembled 30,s and 40,s Knuckles ,UL,s and a few pan,s leaning against the barn out in the open.There were also about 5-10 old cars filled ,trunks and cabs to the ceiling with complete engines.The barn was a fairly small afair about 24x36 but when you opened the door the parts rolled out and you had to walk up on top of them into it.I bought 3 bikes from him that day, 51 pan$125,38 UL$50,41 FL $125 all original paint.Lewis did retire a few years later and offered it all to me including one running 52 sidecar outfit for $2500 it might as well been 25 Million since accumulating wealth has never been my strong suit.I think this stuff ended up in the Charlotte NC area.

[c.o.]

Well, guys these stories are absolutely great! This is the kind of stuff that legends are made of. I'm hoping that they keep coming, as I missed that 60's-70's bike gathering era. It's a real kick to hear stories of this sort and I'm glad that you fellows took the time to share them. Thanks!

[INLINE4NUT]

Well,
I guess we havw time for one more tale!
In the early 70s I heard this story and didnt realize some ten years later would be part of it!
In a papermill town,westbrook maine there was a man and his wife,never had any childern,worked hard and had three Indian Fours a 35.39 and a 41, seems the kid next door was always helping the folks out,shoveling snow mowing the lawn all he things a good kid does for neighbors. As the couple got older the MCs ended up in the cellar apart to be forgotten for some time and on the death of the Oldman his wife GAVE the bikes to the neighbor!he started asking people around him if anyone would put the bikes back together he would GIVE then the 35 or 41!By the time I heard and called on the deal the fellow informed me someone else had taken him up on the offer and it was to late,I thanked him and forgot about the MCs! It seems the MCs ended up far away from Maine.
Fast forward ten years, I form a friendship with a club member and he has a a 1941 Four for sale we go out to look at the bike and low and behold he starts to tell me this same story,I finish the story and we both cannt believe it!He is still around but I wont mention his name,now thats a deal a free 1941 Four!Of course it didnt do me any good when we dickered on the price but still its a good one if you ask me!

[I.D.]

Inline, It,s nice to remember the times when it wasn,t ALL about the money,that is good deads and sharing of parts and information could end up with someone who had talent getting something he might not be able to otherwise afford.The fours have alway,s been A tough nut to crack.I started looking for my first four in the 60,s I tripped over probably 30 chiefs trying to find one.The first one I found hadn,t been run in 20 years but the guy who had it wouldn,t cut it loose no matter how many times I pestered him.I did finally find one(39) in the back of a service station in Horsham PA.It took a long time but I finally was able to purchase it when the owner decided he wanted to buy a new BMW.That was my first expereince with the (simple ) little four cylinder motor.It had a broke right front motor mount so I had to take the whole motor apart to repair it properly. I.D.>>>>>>>

[INLINE4NUT]

ID all I can say isnt it fun!!!!

[c.o.]

Hey INLINE4NUT! I think that both you and ID have stumbled across some great finds in the past, it leaves this young pup green with envy! Have you had a chance to fire up one of your machines yet? I was also wondering what your regular ride was? It's kind of neat to connect a bike with a person. I started out with Harleys and moved to some Brit stuff. Weird huh? I finally got the chance awhile back to acquire my '41 Sport Scout, you've seen the pics in the Scout section, (I've wanted an Indian since I was knee high to a grasshopper!) I'm still gathering a few parts and it needs a complete going through but at least I finally have one! When I do get that done I hope to get a real oldy so I can do a little time travel so to speak. Anyway I hope that life is treating the both you well and that your riding trails are smooth goin'. Take care and thanks again for sharing your stories!

[I.D.]

Hey, C.O. There are still lot,s of finds out there for someone that is willing to do the time searching for them and follow up by completeing the project once you have got it ,like you are doing with your scout. That,s a great bike by the way,and will give you many trouble free miles in the saddle if put together properly.My regular riders right now are a 29 Henderson Streamliner,and my trusty old 39 chief(getting tired).I started out on Harley,s also and still have a few including my first Knuckle a 39 that came from Milton,s pile,although I didn,t get it direct from him.I started out on them for two reasons,one was they were cheap,and two there were people aroung who knew how to work on them as I hadn,t developed many of the mechanical skills necessary to work on them at that time.My favorite for the Harley,s has to be the UL big twin,I used to beat those things all day long and couldn,t break them and it was alway,s fun messin with guy,s who thought it was a 45 or WL.The newest bike I have owned was a 63 Harley Panhead ,but I only had it for a couple of weeks.I average between 6500 to 7500 miles a year on my old iron depending on how many of the road runs I go to.I only had one brit bike and never rode it as it was seized, 61 triumph 500.I shy,d away from them as it seems they are uncomfortable on a long haul.I took in the Oregon trail chapters road run a while back with the web guy Paul Edwards ,he was on his 60,s Brit bike and I was on the Streamliner and by the time we got into Wa on the way home I think his butt was starting to set up.That 41 scout is gonna be a you know what to restore unless you have all the parts as just about all the chassis stuff is one year only but a really cool ride.Are you going to build it as a 57 or a 45?If your going to dive into a 20,s bike get a Henderson ,they were way ahead of their time mechanically and are still pretty cheap as far as four,s go.after everyone recovers from my endless BS I,ll tell another story about Hendersons that will knock your socks off that just happened last year. ID

[c.o.]

Well ID if your gonna call your chattin' BS, let me get comfortable, because I can listen to that kind of BS all day long! A '29 Henderson eh? Very Cool! I bet it's a real joy to ride. Paul had mentioned a '29 awhile back in passing, I hope he didn't get a bunch of drool on it! Ha!Ha! Is there any way that you could post a picture of it? I've often thought that a Henderson would be a good bike to do because they are so cool and it's not like you see them runnin' up and down the road every day, at least not in my neck of the woods. I had actually hoped prior to getting the Scout that I could scoop a late thirties Chief, but the Scout came along and it ended up being a deal that I couldn't pass up. I ended up trading a late sixties Beezer and a bit of cash for it. I guess maybe the guy realized that it was going to be a ****** to do and got frustrated with it. I keep getting told that I picked a hard one to do. As far as the motor goes, Paul had mentioned building two for his 640 and I think that I just may in the end follow suit. It makes a lot of sense to have a backup to keep the downtime limited. So I guess a guy should build a reliable and a hot rod for fun! My main focus will be to get the machine running and roadworthy and then do the finishing details as time and money allows. You've renewed my hopes that the finds are still out there. I don't here of many getting uncovered anymore, that's why I fired up this forum to see if the bike in the barn stories still existed. Now that I've rambled enough, let's here that Henderson story!

[I.D.]

C.O.If it was my scout I don,t think i,d sweat the reliability of the stroker.My chief is an 80 and I have 65.ooo+ on my bottom end and I just changed out my trans cluster and slider(still usuing the output drive gear and original sealed ball bearings).My speedo broke about 4-5 thousand miles ago so I can,t give my exact mileage.I ride with a guy out here that has a screamin 57 incher and it seems to run real good.Like any of the long stroke motors they wear the top ends out pretty quick like 8-10 thousand and will give you plenty of advance warning in the form of oil blowing out your tappet covers.I think that 41 will need the stroker motor to cover that extra weight.A friend of mine in Seattle built a 41 stroker and rides it occationally and say,s it has lots of power.The Henderson story goes something like this.I,m gonna use fictitious names to protect the innocent.There was a great old guy up in my area that had been collecting Hendersons and others for years that I had talked to on the phone for years but had never met face to face.Unfortunately he had passed away about 1984 . No more contact was had about the motorcycles or parts until I got my KJ basket and started scrounging parts for it I tried contacting the brothers but couldn,t make contact so it just sat there. Unbeknownst to me my friend K.M had made contact with the family but they wanted to sell it all in one lump and he didn,t want to do that.Well to make a long story short that deal wasn,t going to happen.Me and K.M. went down to the Dixon Ca swap meet and brought some old parts down there to sell and as usual I didn,t sell anything but scored a few small parts for my sons UL.We were sitting there on Saturday afternoon shootin the breeze when K.M. get,s a call on his cell phone,which turns out to be the relative who owns the parts.He tells K.M. that he can buy anything he wants,needless to say there was a little curiosity as to why we were throwing the stuff in the truck and in such a hurry to leave.We drove all night and got there at 7.00am adrenilin just a pumpin.After waking the owner we got access to the building were the parts were at and my oh my what a sight.After asking if it was alright to move the parts and put bikes together the owner said sure and left us to dig thru this stuff all day.There were KJ and delux frames hanging from the walls tanks hangin from the ceiling a row of probably 10-12 delux motors that were assembled or partially assembled ,a few 17 -18 motors lots of cylinders cranks carbs forks wheels fenders handlebars ,mags,brake parts and pieces 2 super x,s,There were also lots of JD ,Indian chief and scout parts and pieces that we had to move to get at the henderson parts.I wish I had payed more attention to them, but we were there to get Henderson,s.The quantity and quality of this stuff was unreal.This was more fun than I,ve had in 20 years and I owe it to some of the best friends I have ever had in the amca without whom it might never have happened.I,ll see if I can post a jpeg of my streamliner this week. I.D.>>>>>>>>>

[AdminGuy]

Hey Cory, Ian is a great guy and I consider him a good friend. Always good advice. It's easy to catch Henderson fever from him! See spring 2004 pg45.

Hanging out and talking to Ian about four cyclinder engines is a real kick. Looking into the cases and making visual comparisions. I get the impression that engine production was streamlined when Indian took it over. Another thread maybe? Norm brought out his 22 Hend. Mesmorizing watching exposed rockers on a four.

Ian's Hend pulls strong up a mountain. Like a cop bike should. It was incredible riding with him. All day - no problem - not a drop. He does top quality four cyclinder rebuilding. And ya, the line-up starts over there.

I rode 1400miles on a 68 T100R that trip. Akin to sitting on a plank of wood. Great bikes for river roads. One extra tooth up front.

Gagan has some good bike find stories.

[c.o.]

Hey, Paul, it's all becoming so clear to me now.........I can relate to riding a sixities Brit bike long distances, it kind of results in that numb feeling! I'm sure with a big Classic American machine that you arrive a little more comfortable. ID I finally got it figured who you are, I checked out the AMCA Spring 2004 issue like Admin-Guy said and lo and behold there you were! Well, I've never really talked to you much but I've seen you at the O'Keefe ranch rally in Vernon quite a few times. Do you still have your hill climber? I'm also pretty sure I've seen the Cheif that you are mentioning. Thanks for the advice on the Scout it is much appreciated, other than Paul, I haven't had much feedback on my beast as far as what to do and what not to do. Great Henderson story, so I guess they're still out there!