VMCC members? Banbury Run---

[AdminGuy]

Alan Yeoman who organizes the Banbury Run in England sent this photo of a nice Harley with wicker side hack, taken on 2003 run. Thanks Alan! Love that wicker.

Read about the Banbury run at www.banbury-run.co.uk
Alan Says; "We have a 1913 Harley 9E entered for this year's event as well as a 1917 WW1 ex American Army Excelsior."

If you're a VMCC member and would like to communicate with AMCA members please email me.

Alan what can you tell me about that "Haleson" in the old photos sect.?

[INLINE4NUT]

Hey! Not to mention the wicker is on the lefthand side!!

[LouieMCman]

The AMCA needs one of these runs! Pre-1930 or even revive a belt drive rally? Maybe we could have a pre-30 run and move it around every year? Could have shorter routes for the older or belt drive bikes? Any ideas?

Louie

[INLINE4NUT]

Louis, Im envious! wish I had a pre1930, used to have a 29 HD with doublewide.....now I d just have ta watch every1 go by! But it sounds like a great idea!

[AdminGuy]

The pre-16 run exists in CA. I like your idea of pre-30 run and moving it around.

[LouieMCman]

CA...where is that? Just kidding...who sponsors it? Is it the one the car people put on?

Louie

[AFJ]

Old bike road runs

I believe the pre-16 is put on by an antique car association,

It would be quite practical to put in a Veteran (pre-1915) and a Vintage (1915 -1930) road run routing on many of the National Road Runs to give the older bikes a bit of a break. this has been commonly done in English and European events for 75 years and also on some runs in Canada in recent years.

I used a 1927 250 cc Levis for the first day (125 miles) of one of the Empire Chapter's Finger Lakes National Road Runs. It was great fun - and a very long day as the bike has a top speed downhill of 45 mph and uphill (and there are lots of hills there) of maybe 5 mph. I was advised that the second day which included more severe terrain around Watkins Glen would be too much for it so I switched to a 500 cc Triumph.

On another of the Finger Lakes Runs a friend completed all three days (400 miles +) with a '24 Indian Chief and was deservedly given the "oldest bike to do the Run" award.

But I do think that shorter, easier gradient, back road routes could be planned to encourage some of the pre-1930 and smaller- engined bikes.

AFJ

[AdminGuy]

Thanks Allan, Maybe if the terrain was appropriate on one of our national road runs the chapter could advertise a specific day or route for "vintage and or veteran" machines to participate. Must see what Steve S. thinks of this? What do you think Steve?

I really enjoy the opportunity to ride along with these machines (even for a brief moment, it's magic to me) to see, hear and smell them in action, deepens my appreciation. Something I wouldn't ever be exposed to otherwise. Well... until I make it to Dales WTT Museum.

Allan - could you post the text from the CVMG article about Barry Brown and the other guys that had bikes in the Aviator movie. I'd really like to read it if possible.

[AFJ]

The easiest way to incorporate the early (and slower) bikes in a Road Run is to design a route with different "turn-off" points for the different classes.

Since most of the National runs have a "loop" course each day, accomodating the older Antiques is basically a matter of having them start out with the rest but make a "short-turn" to cut off more distant, and difficult parts of the course, joining back up with the run on the way back to the start point.

This is still common practice in the layout of Enduros where you have Novice, Junior, Senior and Expert classes and you dont want to completely discourage the new Novice riders by putting them through a part of a course which would challenge an ISDE-level rider!

Offering a choice of route length on a National Road Run also would allow our older riders (over 65 years) to participate on their older (over 35 year) machines rather than having to go to a newer motorcycle. I have no concern about allowing older members (65+) to use any machine they like on a National Road Run, but I think that a lot of them would use one of their real old ones if their were route options which did not take quite as much out of man and machine each day for the three days.

As to Barry Brown's article on his and his Brough's appearance in "Aviator" you will have to ask him for permission to post it and the pictures - copyright reasons. It was in the Dec. 04 CVMG News.

AFJ

[LouieMCman]

I was thinking of more of a rally just for older bikes, I have done a lot of the National road runs in the mountains that the old belt drives would have a lot of trouble with that's why I think the meets they used to have in Kansas would be perfect. It wouldn't have to be a full blown meet with all the banquets and such. I don't expect there would be that many people attending anyway. Maybe just a weekend get together with a nice cookout?

Louie

[AFJ]

Originally posted by LouieMCman
I was thinking of more of a rally just for older bikes, I have done a lot of the National road runs in the mountains that the old belt drives would have a lot of trouble with that's why I think the meets they used to have in Kansas would be perfect. It wouldn't have to be a full blown meet with all the banquets and such. I don't expect there would be that many people attending anyway. Maybe just a weekend get together with a nice cookout?

Louie

I would prefer to see the older bikes at the same events as the 35 year - and slightly older - ones. Certainly they should be given a route suitable for their safe capabilities. But I think a lot of the AMCA members who show up to these Road Runs on a late model bike should have their eyes opened as to what skillful riders of the old bikes can accomplish. It might encourage them to get one of the older bikes, get it running and see what the pioneering riders we like to talk about really had to deal with.
I have enjoyed the couple of National runs that have been close enough for me to attend, but I was surprised at the number of relatively young participants who were riding what were, in essence, modern motorcycles.
We should be encouraging the younger riders to try the older bikes. they might find out that that is where the real fun is!

AFJ

[AdminGuy]

I like the Dutch mentor program. It was a great idea! Gets a few more machines out on the run for the day. That otherwise would be sitting at home.

It would be a real shame to see pioneer machines entombed into museums and devalued because of lack of interest. It CAN and WILL happen in the next 15 years. Accually... I'm starting to see signs of it now. Just open your eyes and look around, listen in when a couple of young guys look at an earily machine. I'll bet it will really shock you. No knowledge -and even less interest. Classic example is the model T and A market. Most guys want muscle cars.

It is a very rare thing to find a young person (under 35) with even a remote interest in riding w/ LPA a motorized bicycle on a road run. Most fail to see the fun in it. And the cost! Most will buy a Knucklehead or Chief first. It's more practicle.

Young guys (in shape) are perfectly capable of peddling up hill for a mile or two. Maybe the odd older fella also, hee-hee. It's just a heck of alot more fun when you can do it with other pioneer bikes and good people.

I'm looking forward to talking Lenard into teaching me how to ride his 1920 HD. Or anyone else for that matter. I'm facinated with the stuff! But I'm a very rare odd ball sort of guy. I'm under 40 yrs old.

Again- I'd like to see a proposed event incorporated into a 3 day nat. RR. Just for the exposure these machines need.

[B. Rodencal]

Old Chit

Paul.
I have to disagree with you. I have a deep love for old machinces but as with most younger folks... no pockets to match! 1930 and older machines means 20 grand plus! that buys a lot of baby formula. I love to own something really old but when you are talking teens stuff you are talking 100k plus thats a house not a hobby. Now if any old timer out there wants to unload his running 20's or teens bike in the 10k range I'll drag it to every road run this year! FatDog

[AFJ]

Originally posted by B. Rodencal
Paul.
I have to disagree with you. I have a deep love for old machinces but as with most younger folks... no pockets to match! 1930 and older machines means 20 grand plus! that buys a lot of baby formula. I love to own something really old but when you are talking teens stuff you are talking 100k plus thats a house not a hobby. Now if any old timer out there wants to unload his running 20's or teens bike in the 10k range I'll drag it to every road run this year! FatDog

I think you have substantially overstated the price for 1930 and earlier bikes on the private market which, with reasonable effort and not a lot of money, can be turned into usable, reliable bikes. Not concours winners - but then who wants that?

AFJ

[Bob Kelley]

Alan -- I couldn't agree with you more!

I've said it so many times I stopped saying it because I'm tired of repeating myself, but I think it's a shame more people don't bring really old bikes (I mean like 1920s or 30s) on the AMCA road runs. I believe one reason for that is that they know they will be dealing with 50+ mph cruising and sometimes taxing hills or other road conditions that would make it a less-than-fun experience on a very crude and/or small machine.

The reason I know your first name is ... I was with you on that Finger Lakes run! I believe it was in 1999, give or take a year. If you remember seeing an orangish/red 101 Scout, that was me. We passed you at one point, and I had the impression you were having some sort of mechanical difficulties that forced you to ride over to the right, outside of the traffic lanes.

I was riding with a group of people who were maintaining 50 mph on some stretches, which with my 600cc Indian (1928) meant absolute top speed. A 750 101 Scout might have been fine on that, but with the smaller model (which is geared lower) I would have enjoyed it more at a slower pace.

I spoke to a few people at the motel parking lot who had reliable older bikes on the road, but they chose to ride their later, bigger displacement bikes. If they have an Electra-Glide Panhead and an early '30s VL in the garage, they will take the later bike on these runs.

The Finger Lakes run is one that I WOULD recommend to people on the really old iron. I sometimes hear tales about other runs that turn into "freeway runs" or put you in mountainous stretches at a pace that would test the limits of even 1960s-era brakes.

I would rather see an emphasis on a strong turnout of very old motorcycles. Maybe you take it easy on the back roads and don't cover 400 miles and don't see all the tourist destinations in the region.

The way I figure it is, people should be able to ride their Shovels and Blackhawk Chiefs and Bonnevilles with other people in normal traffic. For the AMCA runs, they should be breaking out the really special old bikes.