VMCC members? Banbury Run---

[B. Rodencal]

I think you have substantially overstated the price for 1930 and earlier bikes on the private market which, with reasonable effort and not a lot of money, can be turned into usable, reliable bikes. Not concours winners - but then who wants that?

AFJ

Really! What year is you 101? Take 5 grand for it? 10? Would you like me to post some examples? Try this..
http://www.midamericaauctions.com/sh...D=45&PersonID=
Scroll through a few of these pages and see some of the 2 & 3 category VL that DID NOT sell for 27-34K 70K plus teen reproductions! that DID NOT Sell
The defense rests.

[AFJ]

Originally posted by B. Rodencal
I think you have substantially overstated the price for 1930 and earlier bikes on the private market which, with reasonable effort and not a lot of money, can be turned into usable, reliable bikes. Not concours winners - but then who wants that?

AFJ

Really! What year is you 101? Take 5 grand for it? 10? Would you like me to post some examples? Try this..
http://www.midamericaauctions.com/sh...D=45&PersonID=
Scroll through a few of these pages and see some of the 2 & 3 category VL that DID NOT sell for 27-34K 70K plus teen reproductions! that DID NOT Sell
The defense rests.

First off you are mistaking me for another poster who has a 101 Scout.
Second, I note that in the results of the same auction there were 8 bikes between 1914 and 1930 which sold for less than $10,000.
Third, I was referring to the private, not the auction market in my comments.
Fourth, I did not refer to H-D or Indian or any specific make or model.
Fifth, I guess you just missed a deal - I recently sold a running 1930 motorcycle for $2,500 - which I thought was a fair price.

AFJ

[B. Rodencal]

fair enough, when I think motorcycles I think American made, it's just how I am wired. Any other make just doesn't warm my heart at any price. No offense... it just doesn''t. They might be the end all to some and, that's great!, they just do nothing for me. I recall my comments and add the disclamer to my first post... Whenever you see motorcycle, preface it with Harley-Davidson.

[AFJ]

Originally posted by Bob Kelley
Alan -- I couldn't agree with you more!

I've said it so many times I stopped saying it because I'm tired of repeating myself, but I think it's a shame more people don't bring really old bikes (I mean like 1920s or 30s) on the AMCA road runs. I believe one reason for that is that they know they will be dealing with 50+ mph cruising and sometimes taxing hills or other road conditions that would make it a less-than-fun experience on a very crude and/or small machine.

The reason I know your first name is ... I was with you on that Finger Lakes run! I believe it was in 1999, give or take a year. If you remember seeing an orangish/red 101 Scout, that was me. We passed you at one point, and I had the impression you were having some sort of mechanical difficulties that forced you to ride over to the right, outside of the traffic lanes.

I was riding with a group of people who were maintaining 50 mph on some stretches, which with my 600cc Indian (1928) meant absolute top speed. A 750 101 Scout might have been fine on that, but with the smaller model (which is geared lower) I would have enjoyed it more at a slower pace.

I spoke to a few people at the motel parking lot who had reliable older bikes on the road, but they chose to ride their later, bigger displacement bikes. If they have an Electra-Glide Panhead and an early '30s VL in the garage, they will take the later bike on these runs.

The Finger Lakes run is one that I WOULD recommend to people on the really old iron. I sometimes hear tales about other runs that turn into "freeway runs" or put you in mountainous stretches at a pace that would test the limits of even 1960s-era brakes.

I would rather see an emphasis on a strong turnout of very old motorcycles. Maybe you take it easy on the back roads and don't cover 400 miles and don't see all the tourist destinations in the region.

The way I figure it is, people should be able to ride their Shovels and Blackhawk Chiefs and Bonnevilles with other people in normal traffic. For the AMCA runs, they should be breaking out the really special old bikes.

Bob,

Thanks for the reply. It was 1999. I think we met again on the second day just after passing Watkins Glen. when you had stopped for some reason. Somebody had run out of gas, if I remember. I had switched to the Knobby-tired Triumph "Jack Pine" 500 cc with the blue and white tank on the advice of the layout crew who knew the hills around the Glen were much worse than any on teh first day's run.

If it was on the climb beside Keuka lake on the way north from Hammondsport on teh first day, it was probably just the fact that the Levis is only a 250cc 2-stroke with perhaps 4 or 5 actual horsepower so any long hills mean that you have to go down to second gear which limits the bike to about 22 mph. As teh shoulder was paved, I used it to avoid slowing up other traffic. Teh bike will do 45 on the level or a bit of a downhill when everything is right . On the steep hills it will climb any grade in first gear but at perhaps 5 to 10 mph. And with me on it is is carrying more than its own weight!
I did manage the 125 miles that day but the running time was between 6 and 7 hours as I had an exhaust pipe come adrift at one point and a leaking solder joint in a fuel line along with a couple of spark plug changes. No wonder I was given the award for the "Best Roadside Wrench" at the final dinner.

All part of the fun and games.

I did look at a detailed map of the area later and I think it would be possible to have run some more interesting and quieter back roads suitable for the lower speed bikes or those who want to take it a bit easier. This is not meant to criticize the Empire chapter layout crew. They did a fine job on both the 199 and the 2002 runs. But it would be quite possible to have some really interesting and winding routes in that area that would be just great for the pre-1930 bikes.

AFJ

[AFJ]

Originally posted by B. Rodencal
fair enough, when I think motorcycles I think American made, it's just how I am wired. Any other make just doesn't warm my heart at any price. No offense... it just doesn''t. They might be the end all to some and, that's great!, they just do nothing for me. I recall my comments and add the disclamer to my first post... Whenever you see motorcycle, preface it with Harley-Davidson.

You don't know what you're missing. So many, many great motorcycle designs out there.
But I understand.

AFJ

[B. Rodencal]

Oh I dream of owning a 1922 Ace sporting solo... But there we are back to that House kind of money again! Unless there is a certain animal doctor out there who would like to donate me one!

[AdminGuy]

Many earily American machines destined for glorious lives as plant stands and coffee tables. So sad.... well, what ever turns your crank I guess.

Back routes and wide paved shoulders are really great. I'm always really happy to see Mike Smith and family on route. Earily product that is ridden. He proves it's not that big a deal. Even though my jaw is hanging open half the time.

I've always liked 29 Nortons ohc. But I'd get a real kick out of pedaling something pre-15. A blistering 20-30mph suits me fine. I'll find it eventually.

Reminds me- I should go see someone with bottle in hand.

Bill XP4, or Henderson boardtrack racer (with period correct tack). Very nice.

[LouieMCman]

I would like see the old belt drives have a run. Just the old bikes!I have ridden my VL on many road runs and haven't had any trouble keeping up or pulling any of the mountains. I'm sure some of you have seen a ratty VL passing you on some of runs. Sure, it uses a little (lot) of oil, but it's still a fairly modern bike. I guess there just isn't enough people out there riding the old ones to spark enough interest in getting a run together. I guess I just continue to ride them around the house and at the meets.

Louie

[Pete Gagan]

Hi All:
I am really glad to see so many of you in favor of running the early bikes on National road runs, an idea thats near and dear to my heart, as I have some rather ancient machinery I enjoy riding.
I will get on the program.
Also, Fat Dog my friend, you may be surprised to know that very nice examples of flat tank pre 16 British machines can be purchased for less than people are now asking for some of those Harley 45's you love.
There is an AMCA team being put together for the Banbury Run this year with some of the European Chapter folks. I will be there riding a 1912 Triumph belonging to an English friend who is also an AMCA member.
By the way, the CA pre-16 runs are organized through the Horseless Carriage Club, but AMCA members are most welcome. We missed the boat on that one a few years back.
Pete Gagan, President, AMCA

[AFJ]

Pete,

I think it would greatly assist the preservation of the older bikes, outside of static museum-type display, for a lot of the newer AMCA members - who naturally tend to stay with the newer bikes they grew up with - to see the old stuff in action the way it was meant to be used. they might get the idea that a bit of a challenge on a ride can be a lot of fun.

All that is really required to establish a safe enjoyable route for any of the older bikes at a National Road Run is for the layout to be done by someone familiar with the older bike requirements. As I have had the pleasure of having had to do the layout work for a number of runs which catered to all ages of bikes - including pre-1915 ones, I'll volunteer to draft a set of guidelines which could help organizers who might not be familiar with the old bikes - if you think it might be helpful.


AFJ

[Pete Gagan]

Hi Al:
How could we refuse? Thank you in advance, and I'll make sure Steve Ciccolone gets it to circulate to the Chapters.
Are we going to see that Levis out this year? The Yankee Chapter Road Run is not too far away from you.

Pete Gagan

[Bob Kelley]

I'm like Louie -- I just love seeing those really old beasts out there in the wind!

I don't have to be the one riding them. In fact, I doubt that will ever happen.

Allan, I don't remember that second encounter you mentioned, but we did talk briefly at the Holiday Inn parking lot one afternoon, I think after the run was over. I dimly remember I was looking for an Indian part and was asking you for any contacts on finding it.

Now I also have a 1929 45" 101 Scout and a 1966 XLH Sportster bagger (my modern utility steed) on the road.

My dream would be an early/mid teens V-twin like a Flying Merkel or maybe a late Hedstrom Indian, but I not only can't afford it ... I recognize that I would not have the mechanical resources or knowledge to keep it on the road (I do know of places where I could ride it near home). I wish other people who have these bikes would join us on the National Road Runs.

[B. Rodencal]

How about the Badger Heritage chapter sponsoring an early run? Possibly from Mike Lange's place. Not to offer up their sevices unbeknownst to them but.. It has been a while since they have done anything. I might even Join the chapter! Hell...I know a guy at Harley that might be able to arrange something?

[Pete Gagan]

Hi Bill:
Have a chat with the Badger Heritage Chapter by all means. They will certainly get the positive attention of the board.
If it comes off, I will try and bring my 1914 Zenith Gradua for you to try. Like a lot of American bikes it is a V twin, but its 1000 cc (61cu.in.) J.A.P. engine has four cams- twice as many as any Harley. It is low slung, handles very well, and has blown any and all other machines of its age I have ridden with into the rhubarb, with the exception of Lane Plotner's Cyclone which is a bit of a special case. I can still beat him on hills though, because of the gradua gear.
You may not be converted to the foreign machines, but will get a bit better appreciation of them.
All is in fun.
Cheers,
Pete Gagan

[AFJ]

Originally posted by Pete Gagan
Hi Al:

Are we going to see that Levis out this year? The Yankee Chapter Road Run is not too far away from you.

Pete Gagan

With the new Vintage insurance plan promised to start next month, so I could insure both the Levis and the Brough, I had hoped to get to the Berkshire Run with both. But there is a big Vintage event up here in Canada on the same weekend as the Yankee Run starts, so it may not be possible to get there before it starts. Originally it was not to start until the Monday but now it is a Sunday start.

AFJ