Younger Membership of AMCA

[IRON]

Nickel Norton writes:
"As an example, I've read articles and seen blogs showing high school vocational programs that bring in a vintage bike, such as a Honda CB or a similar "cheaper" donor bike that is not running. According to recent articles, these "non-college" programs are on the rise with the skyrocketing price of college tuition. The students learn about the bike, work on it, and present their work to the public. Seems like a great opportunity for some AMCA advertising and get kids interested who are already into the more mechanical side of things."

The Badger Heritage chapter of the AMCA is very fortunate to have one of these vocational programs in the community. The chapter is beginning to become involved in a local high school program that "Pairs high-school kids with vintage bike building mentors"! The kids love it, the mentors really enjoy it, and it provides the opportunity for these kids to enjoy our restored and stock antique motorcycles. Both fun and educational for ALL involved!

Like Nickel Norton says, its a great opportunity to improve AMCA awareness among our youth while getting them interested in the old bikes.

Ride Free
IRon

[shelbyinparadise]

your waiver for kids riding will do nothing for the bystander who is run over while standing in line for ice cream. i'm shocked nobody has sued wauseon over the pea gravel that gets shot from the racetrack. it's sad to live in a sue happy world.

I am more shocked our National Board and Lawyerlike President ignore the use of race track in event rules in policy manual page 42 and 43
"Vendors must be AMCA members.
"Vendors may sell only motorcycles and parts 35 years old or older only, and related items.
"Camping is for AMCA members only.
43
"Ground fires are not allowed.
"Alcoholic beverages are not allowed.
"Pets must be under restraint at all times.
"Parents must supervise their children at all times
"Use of a race track is not permitted for anyone at any time during the Meet.
"Unlicensed persons may not operate any motor-driven vehicle."

I have nothing against the races, but the High and Mighty way rules are applied, like staying on their topic. They overlooked this while revising P&P mess at March meeting. Shelby

[Spag]

Shelby,
My "High and Mighty" response to your last post on use of the race track at certain AMCA National Meets and the exclusion in the P&P manual: I have attended the dirt track races at Wauseon and Davenport over the years. These races are sponsored by a private promoter in conjunction with the owner of the fairgrounds. The AMCA is NOT involved in any way in the racing or promotion. The insertion of the provision in the P&P that the use of the race track is not permitted is to prevent those attending AMCA National Meets from sneaking on to the track without permission and racing their motorcycles.

If you look at your auto and motorcycle insurance policies, you will find an exclusion for racing your insured vehicles. The AMCA liability policy has such an exclusion. The AMCA Board policy in the P&P against use of race tracks at National Meets was well thought out by the Board long ago and is the correct current policy. I'm sure anyone violating this policy at Wauseon would be escorted from the fairgrounds. I hope this addresses your post without sounding too "lawyer-like."
Richard

[AFJ]

Shelby,
My "High and Mighty" response to your last post on use of the race track at certain AMCA National Meets and the exclusion in the P&P manual: I have attended the dirt track races at Wauseon and Davenport over the years. These races are sponsored by a private promoter in conjunction with the owner of the fairgrounds. The AMCA is NOT involved in any way in the racing or promotion. The insertion of the provision in the P&P that the use of the race track is not permitted is to prevent those attending AMCA National Meets from sneaking on to the track without permission and racing their motorcycles.

If you look at your auto and motorcycle insurance policies, you will find an exclusion for racing your insured vehicles. The AMCA liability policy has such an exclusion. The AMCA Board policy in the P&P against use of race tracks at National Meets was well thought out by the Board long ago and is the correct current policy. I'm sure anyone violating this policy at Wauseon would be escorted from the fairgrounds. I hope this addresses your post without sounding too "lawyer-like."
Richard

It is my understanding from the latest AMCA P & P guidelines that the AMCA insurance does not cover members or their motorcycles for liability, when operated on the grounds of a National Meet, if there is a collision with a non-member attending the event. When last at Rhineback, I noted a lot of old motorcycles being ridden on the grounds. most did not have license plates and probably were not carrying basic liability insurance as needed in most places for road use.

Having been involved as a volunteer in putting on motorcycling events and competitions for many years, it has always been my understanding that there is a requirement for the club putting on the event to have special motorcycle event liability insurance and where licensed motorcycles are used by rally or competition entrants either on or off the event site ( field meets, demonstrations, road runs, enduros, etc., etc.,) for a waiver to be signed and witnessed by club officials. This waiver includes the requirement that if the motorcycle is to be operated on public roads or in public places that the motorcycle is licensed, insured, meets govt. requirements for road use (lights, horn, etc.) and the rider(s) are wearing the govt. required and approved safety safety equipment.
in my experience, which includes a number of situations and claims arising from "incidents" where claims where made or threatened, such insurance is always necessary in Canada.

I realize that requirements vary widely from state to state on all this but it has been my own practice at all AMCA events (Meets, Road Runs) to only bring for use motorcycles which are road legal and insured in both Canada and the US. Meeting the New York "lights-on in daytime" requirement when using a motorcycle with acetylene lighting required some interesting experiments, but it was accomplished. Dealing with the Ohio and Pennsylvania optional helmet laws for Road Runs was simple. Although I was jeered at in Ohio for wearing a safety helmet on the Meet's Road Run, I will always have a soft spot in my heart for the late Dick Winger. He came to my rescue with the comment, "He has to wear a helmet, he's Canadian."

AFJ

[CCT]

The AMCA is not just about the preservation and restoration to "as came from the factory" machines. It is also is about the preservation of everything related to our two wheeled history. Be that the printed word, signage, aftermarket parts, historically modified machines, etc. Our museums, the judging field, and huge personal collections are full of " as come from the factory" machines. When Kevin and I got the "period modifieds" recognized it was because alot of historical modified machines were being restored and their history being lost. When the founders in 1953 started the club most the machines we have today didn't exsist. They were saving machines that mostly arrived before WW1 and were lost to the war's scrap drives. They later changed it to the thirty-five year rule to incompass more motorcycle history. We now are looking at 100 years and change of motorcycle history and their original window was rather small. What about the next fifty years? Most machines never stayed like they came from the factory. Most riders changed bars, seat, pipes, paint, etc. Everything that has to do with out motorcycle history is relevent and doesn't have to chance the tenets of our club. Change is ongoing. If it isn't or is restrained thing die. Life is strange that way. There's room for thought on this issue. After fifty years in the saddle and over thirty years a member of this wonderful club I think everything about motorcycles are part of it's history and has to be recorded and preserved for future generations.

I agree with RichO on the modified motorcycles are a BIG part of motorcycle history & that is what any antique motorcycle club should be about preserving ALL of motorcycling history. when I attend a National road run, or meet modified motorcycles are all around. I grew up watching my grandfather build & ride his motorcycles & not one of them was stock.

If you want to attract younger members #1 you need to go to where they are & let you know you are here. #2 they need to feel welcome no matter what they are riding. #3 take an interest in what they are doing with their motorcycles, #4 keep doing it over & over again & you will see the fruit of your labor, maybe not today or tomorrow but if you plant the seed & attend to it eventually it will grow.

The vintage chopper seen is very strong here on the west coast, the "younger" crowd did not have a show they were happy with, so two guys Mike & Grant started a show & called it Born Free. Six years ago, these two put their heart & soul into the show, they make people feel welcome at their event no matter the brand or condition of the motorcycle be it stock or modified. If you want to see what it has become check out the link to mooneyes JP. for extensive photo coverage. http://www.mooneyes.co.jp/en/photo/t...s/born-free-6/ . Both Mike & Grant are members & support the AMCA, they provide the Los Angeles Chapter with space to host an AMCA swap meet at no cost to the chapter. Their hospitality allows the Los Angeles chapter to have a small swap meet as we struggle to find an affordable, suitable location to host an AMCA National Meet in Southern California.

[BoschZEV]

I've been following this thread from the start and have an observation (and a suggestion) to make that I haven't seen explicitly discussed yet. The reality is for the past decade the motorcycle industry has had an increasingly difficult time attracting young people to buy new motorcycles. Their Motorcycle Industry Council has gone through several staff whose specific assignment has been to try to deal with this issue, thus far without any sort of success that I can see. Anyway, the point of this comment is already the major manufacturers are doing whatever they think they can do to address this so it seems to me fairly unlikely the AMCA would bring anything additional to the table should they direct much of their efforts toward youth. Yes, make youth welcome in the club, but don't spend too much time worrying about them.

I doubt if the data exist from 20+ years ago, but I strongly suspect the average age of AMCA members has never been below 50. I'll speculate the typical route to AMCA membership is being exposed to motorcycles as a teenager, riding until marriage and kids, greatly reduced motorcycle activity for the next 20-30 years until the kids are gone and there is more free time and money, and then getting back into motorcycling. It's at that point, when someone is 50+, that they are most likely to be susceptible to joining AMCA. If this actually is the case, the same amount of effort directed toward the 50+ crowd is much more likely to keep the club rolls filled than directed toward teenagers.

This leads to my suggestion. Instead of worrying about introducing teenagers to motorcycles, spend time figuring out how to market the AMCA to buyers of new Harleys, Indians, Victorys, etc. Kids who buy new motorcycles today don't buy these motorcycles. This is evidenced by the fact for years the average age of buyers of new Harleys has advanced at the rate of nearly 1 year per year (much to the consternation of their stockholders). So, while not all of these buyers will be interested in the AMCA, the percentage of them who would be is a lot higher than any other demographic that comes to mind.

Thirty-five years from now the AMCA, if it still exists, will be different. Many of those of age 50+ who join then will want to relive their youth by buying the old motorcycles they had when young, which at that time will be 2014 Hondas, Yamahas, Ducatis, etc. The percentage of old American iron at AMCA meets likely will be a lot lower than it is today. But few of the people reading (or writing) this will be around 35 years from now so we won't be there to complain that the club has changed.

In summary, my analysis of this is that 50 is the age to target for AMCA membership, not 15.

[exeric]

BoschZEV, your post is the most insightful thus far. I've contended that the AMCA appeals to a narrow interest (and not just American bikes). That esoteric interest is what makes the AMCA unique and special. If that uniqueness gets too diluted we'll just become a poor imitation of the AMA. Big is not always better.

[shelbyinparadise]

Maybe I am missing something here, look on AMCA home page news about Wauseon and the Motorcycle races and Jay are promoted as a draw to the event. You once told one of our officers to remember how simple the readers are when it comes to concepts, yet the rules require a lawyer to explain differences from rules written in plain English? "The AMCA is NOT involved in any way in the racing or promotion" to quote you.

"Because in addition to all the normal Wauseon fun—hundreds of vendors, a great program of vintage and modern dirt-track racing (this year featuring legendary racer Jay Springsteen!), field games, bike judging" This sure walks like a DUCK or at least promotes like a duck

How would a simple person view our posting about the Races on AMCA home page as being anything else but promotion? Unless you want to call it a competing event, then you would not allow it. Remember my comment was in the context of previous quote about someone being hurt by flying pea gravel from races at the meet. You were the one that was saying how no waver could stand up to a good lawyer, same can be said for original AMCA rules, Shelby, No one ever wins a debate with a Lawyer, so most do not try.

[BoschZEV]

Thanks very much for the compliment.

If that uniqueness gets too diluted

Looked at another way, what I wrote wasn't an opinion on whether or not we should "dilute" the AMCA by attracting younger members, I'm saying it would be very difficult to do even if we tried. A calculation might be helpful.

To keep the algebra simple, assume that the size of the AMCA is fixed at 10,000 and that all members are currently 59, i.e. so the current average age also is 59. If we wanted to lower the average age to 58 as we recruited new members to replace 59-year olds that left (keeping the total fixed at 10k), we would only need to attract 230 15-year olds, but we would need to attract four times that many, i.e. 1111, 50-year olds to accomplish the same reduction in average age. However, based on my understanding of the interests of 15 and 50 year olds, it would be way more than 4x easier to attract those 1111 than it would be the 230.

The 'A' in AMCA stands for "Antique." How many 15-year olds are interested in antiques of any kind? I don't know the answer to that, but I'm pretty sure it's not many. Also, like it or not, and no offense intended, the AMCA is pretty much a club of grumpy old men. How many 15-year olds are interested in hanging out with a bunch of grumpy old men? Again, not many.

By all means the AMCA should welcome younger people of all ages with open arms. But, to paraphrase what Willie Sutton said about why he robs banks ("because that's where the money is"), the reason I'm suggesting the AMCA direct its efforts at people who are 50+ is because that's where the potential members are.

[shelbyinparadise]

BoschZEV, your post is the most insightful thus far. I've contended that the AMCA appeals to a narrow interest (and not just American bikes). That esoteric interest is what makes the AMCA unique and special. If that uniqueness gets too diluted we'll just become a poor imitation of the AMA. Big is not always better.

I totally agree about BoschZEV's insightful post and glad to see your comment (and not just American bikes). In my humble view the largest pool of future Members could come from Clubs like the Vintage Japanese Motorcycle Club and many other specialty vintage Clubs. These people are already into the restoration process, developing skills, networking and social media savvy and have a younger average base. Also with my work with Cherokee Chapter and Eustis Swap meet, a fair number of these people already have the interest in Antique Motorcycles of all makes. Open mindness is key to moving forward. There will always be separation of 100+ or 75+, or 50+ year old Antiques, which allows for some uniqueness in interest of members.

The AMCA should always be proud of its roots, but as more makes become 35 years old, we must embrace the idea the AMCA will welcome other collectors who are equally proud of their work, Skills and machines. Shelby

[IRON]

Well stated CCT !
"If you want to attract younger members #1 you need to go to where they are & let them know you are there. #2 they need to feel welcome no matter what they are riding. #3 take an interest in what they are doing with their motorcycles, #4 keep doing it over & over again & you will see the fruit of your labor, maybe not today or tomorrow but if you plant the seed & attend to it eventually it will grow."

This seems it would apply to any age group...and guess what? If you love old motorcycles, it's alot of Fun to boot!

Ride Free
IRon

[rdillon]

Not that my opinion means anything, but Bosch nailed it. I joined the AMCA at the age of 50. Would not have been interested at 15. Too busy with other motorcycle related activities as a young adult. Lived through that, luckily. Married at 25, settled down, raised a kid, she's grown and gone, now I've got more time and a little more money, dabbling in the antiques. So yes, the 50 year olds are the most reachable prospective members from that point of view. Shelby, you also bring up some very valid points, the 50 year olds aren't the ONLY prospects. Keep talking here, I'm enjoying the conversation.
Now let's get to Wauseon! Randy

[pete @ occhiolungo]

RIDE old motorcycles

The AMCA's biggest asset isn't its huge bank balance. It is the acquired knowledge of the members and the power of the club volunteers to do things. How do we tap into those assets to keep the club going for the next 50 years?

Pick an age group to target, be it 15 or 30 or 50. How do we actually get people to join the club? My suggestion is to promote RIDING MOTORCYCLES. The club calendar is already filled with swap meets and bike shows. I think we need more club rides. And the limited number of Road Runs we do have are on weekdays. That is fine for the 65+ year old retired people, but most people still need to work Monday through Friday. We need to host a lot more rides on 2-3 day weekends if we want to get new folks joining in the fun.

The year is filled with fun bike events, but the official AMCA ones are only a very small percentage of what vintage bike guys are doing. You've heard of The Race of Gentleman, The Moto Melee, The Isle of Vashon TT, or even The Bud Ekins Memorial Ride. These events, and riding vintage bikes in general, have become very popular. But the AMCA is not a sponsor of them. The club is seen by outsiders as the supplier of a newsletter and the sponsor of a few big swap meets in the Midwest. The next generation of vintage bike riders is not interested in either newsletters nor swap meets. I suggest that it is time to start some new rides and some new traditions.

Personally, I see the future of the club in the 30-40 year old members and future members, not the 15 or the 50+. Generation Y are old enough to have a good job and afford a decent old bike, and they have been around the block enough to know what they are getting into. I'm contacted weekly by people of that age group asking for information about old bikes. They want to know how to fix them, who has spare parts, when is the next ride, etc. If the AMCA could somehow quickly give out information to the Digital Generation, that is what those guys are after. They don't want to drive 10 hours to a swap meet; they'll buy parts via their computer. They want info right now, and they want to ride their bikes.

Lots and lots of people under age 40 have recently become passionate about old bikes. But they are not into the AMCA. Not yet.

So how do we best use our club's assets? Find a way to share our knowledge. And organize more rides.

Regards,
Pete

[shelbyinparadise]

Pete made so many great points it is hard to add much, except to say how the chapters need seed money from the National to help get the word out. We put on Meet and Greet booths out of our own pockets gladly to get new members, to have a place where new members can introduce themselves. We pass the hat at larger events and we get by, but if consideration is given to expand the number of events promoted for the enjoyment of local people. Smaller chapters have more problems than our large Chapter when it comes to how to afford to grow.

In Texas we have plenty of cruse nights in different small towns, it is just a problem spreading the word that these events are a good way to organize local rides around these events. I for one do not have time for Facebook or instagram, do not have smart phone, but still can try to get the word out face to face.

Why does the National have a Huge bank balance and growing, and still refuses to work with ways to help the 58 chapters defer some of their expenses while growing the National membership? Reminds me of the Vatican, all the nuns and priest take a vow of poverty for the common good, while the Pope has a tremendous expense account and well paid staff.

[olddaze]

Knotthed,
I set up and vend in the swap area at Wauseon and have for several years. I am all for restrictions on motorized toy and the age of the operators. In fact judging from this year it isn't being enforced. In past years I've seen people hit, tables ran into, rooster tails of gravel sprayed over people and parts. All by under age people that just took off with no idea who their parents are. The clouds of limestone dust I'll save for another time.