New Unknown Milwaukee V-twin

[rwm]

It had the "Baby racing Bosch magneto" so who knows what you want to call it. Racing utility motor sounds kind of
odd though. I think your pushing it there Herb.

Dick

your mag may have been replaced at one time. the ffv's are made in germany.

[pem]

your mag may have been replaced at one time. the ffv's are made in germany.

Rob, I thought the same thing but the German Bosch Magneto FFV is mentioned in the owners manual. In another place it is described as "Robert Bosch High Tension Magneto". Seeing as my mag is a FFVR and has the impulse drive it might have been replaced but you could order any type of ignition with this motor, battery or magneto. Maybe someday we will come across a Mar Tan catalog that shows the entire line of motors and accessories.

Dick

[bobdo]

Dick,
I hate to break the news to you, but that prop will never get you off the ground! kidding...
What a cool motor, great find.

[silentgreyfello]

Ok, so you could leave it like it is, as a motor stand, or build a bike around it, and that would be a very cool, fantasy motor stand. I'd do the latter in a heartbeat. Would be a fun project.

[HarleyCreation]

Dick, thanks for the additional info, including the interesting 69.9 ci displacement. Nice size motor. Now we need to find out the displacement of that smaller V-twin job.

The Waverley-PEM-Jefferson-Mack-Lake-MarTan geneology sounds very logical. The way Perry's ohv engine line knocked around in so many incarnations (possibly also the Pope ohv?) reminds me of what Harley tried with the opposed XA (BMW clone) engine. First the army motorcycle, then plans for a cilivian XA ohv sports bike, then in a Servi-Car prototype and lastly plans as a utility engine to power generators and other stuff. But in the end none of that worked out. Perry's stuff got farther than that, but not the widespread success that fabulous motor really deserved. Too far ahead of its time, I'd guess.

But full overhead-valves, ball bearing internals, and Baby Bosch racing magneto--I gotta go with Cory on this one, this job is a pump racer!

Hey, I have a big potato patch that needs irrigating. Maybe I can borrow this thing. Whaddaya say?

[c.o.]

Hey, I have a big potato patch that needs irrigating. Maybe I can borrow this thing. Whaddaya say?

That would hands down be the coolest irrigation setup going!!!

[Slojo]

This is a motorcycle site, we ride motorcycles, we build motorcycles, we don't ride pumps and a static engine with some old dirt on it is not nearly as fun as a bike going down the road. A motorcycle roles around easily on wheels, makes cool noises and interesting smells. A static engine is just a big heavy lump of metal. Sell the motor to me and I will do a build article using the motor as a center piece! Lets go racing! Q,,, are the cases aluminum? (aluninum, one of my favorite mispronunciations)

Joe

[c.o.]

Joe!

You are correct in regard to what this site is all about. Having said that I was really glad that Dick shared this engine with us. Fact of the matter is, it was never intended for a motorcycle but has an uncanny resemblance to Perry Mack's creations so I think it still fits in here on the forum. As far as building a bike out of it... that's a tough one. There have been a few Jefferson motorcycles showing up in the last few years that are simply not what they are portrayed to be. Specifically the ones with engines designed for cyclecars and such. I wouldn't blame Dick for not contributing to the trend. The history of Perry Mack's machines has gotten a little muddy and future generations are not likely to ever know the difference.

[Slojo]

Cory

It is good this motor was presented to all of us in this forum, it started an interesting conversation. Dick can do with it as he pleases, I am ok with that. Besides right now I have to many projects in process to start another bike build project.

Briggs and Stratton motors were never intended to become power sources to operate mini bikes and other motor scooters but because of the creativity of the human mind, they did, and those little motors gave many young mechanics a start in the M/C world.

Joe

[pem]

Briggs and Stratton motors were never intended to become power sources to operate mini bikes and other motor scooters but because of the creativity of the human mind, they did, and those little motors gave many young mechanics a start in the M/C world.

Joe[/QUOTE]

Joe you hit the nail on the head. And it's so ironic that Perry is involved , at least his design, in another motor. And when you mentioned Briggs & Stratton I don't think many people realized just how important Perry's role at Briggs & Stratton was. He made them a boatload of money. He was Chief Engineer in the motor division for 30 years. He designed their motor wheel. He designed their first engines in the 1920's and all through his career. Invention after invention was assigned to B&S by Perry. And when he died he was not a wealthy man by any means. And he never went to college. He attended a one room school house in the 1880's/90's which now sits in the middle of a corn field.

Dick

[HarleyCreation]

I can understand both sides of this interesting discussion which shows various takes on our hobby.

This MarTan motor config appears to be part of the Perry E. Mack ohv technology and family tree. For that reason it is a valuable historical relic in its original condition and purpose as a utility or stand motor. Of course since this engine belongs to Dick, it's his call what to do with it. But it's also interesting and useful to hear other opinions.

Tell me if I'm wrong here Joe, but I get the impression that if this ohv engine was yours that you would build a useable street motorcycle out of it and then ride the wheels off of it.

I don't get the impression that your idea is to make a art-piece motorcycle from it and then falsely advertise the thing as an original for big bucks. That's an entirely different thing. I can understand the allure of those ohvs to a guy who rides old bikes like you do and no mistake!

Speaking of which, I was going thru my photos of my trip below last year and ran across some of you and the Gray Ghost with Willie G. at the Museum. Those are sure nice! We should post them for everyone's enjoyment. Plus I can email them to you if you want them. I think that I still have your email address.

[Slojo]

Herb and Dick

Thank you both for the informative responses.

Herb if the motor was mine it would be put in a chassis and run at Wauseon and Davenport with the board track racer class. No false advertisements, pride, what it is, is what it is.

Right now I am in process on two bikes with others in the waiting room and don't have space on the operating table for a third, kind of like M.A.S.H. without the blood and pain.

PS: Photos would be cool.

Joe

[c.o.]

Very good point Joe! I didn't have a Briggs and Stratton mini bike as a kid but I made darn sure that my son got one! I even have been known to take it out for a spin on occasion! It is a blast!!! Just so you don't take me wrong... I know if you had such an engine that you wouldn't misrepresent it if you built a motorcycle around it. I should have clarified that in my last post. My apologies if it came out wrong. I too would entertain the thought of cramming it into a boardtracker just to see how fast it would turn the wheels! One could call it something other than the names of of yesteryear and could give a run down of what parts were used to build it. It would be a mutt but something cool could be built for sure! It is Dick's acquisition of course and I too think that he should be the decider of it's fate.

This has been an awesome thread. Thanks Dick!!!

[pem]

Cory, thanks for the kind words. I didn't know what to expect when I started this thread. I just wanted to share what I had found because of it being so rare. Because of guys like you and Herb I now know that the Mar Tan is even more advanced than I had thought. And I have located another collector who has one and will be sharing my manuals with him. I'll be heading over to Milwaukee next month to do some more research and hopefully I'll find a catalog. That would be great.

later

[D.Mac]

[QUOTE=Slojo;120839
Briggs and Stratton motors were never intended to become power sources to operate mini bikes and other motor scooters but because of the creativity of the human mind, they did, and those little motors gave many young mechanics a start in the M/C world.
Joe[/QUOTE]

Not to hi-jack the thread, but this quote hit home. As a kid I put this thing together out of odds and ends. It ran good and was actually pretty fast. Later a nieghbor kid gave me a Whizzer gas tank he had, and I put it on. Fun times.
Doug.