Davenport, so the rumor is........

[Knotthed]

I can offer the following observations. The National president seemed to be off with his speach at the banquet, which would explain the ?uncomfortableness? that was seen and heard coming from him. He did have high regards for BH at the dinner though as I recall it.

I would also offer my thoughts that the average member is likley oblivious to most of this, as they get the magazine and are not online reading these posts.

Dennis Craig also gave an update on the foundation and the museum, not remembering anything earth shattering though.

[len dowe]

Seems to me they (BOD) should all be let go and elect new from all the members. The AMCA used to be a family orientated of people that like old machines, not this poliitical "stuff". I'm not well versed and i don't know all the legal jargen and i can't spell for nothing, but without people like me, the amca would be nothing and i think the BOD has forgotten that. The AMCA was made so that WE can all enjoy these old machines... So be that said, it's time to come back to the basics on what this club was founded on, "the love of old machines". If not, then it's sad to say i will consider to terminate my long time membership and sorry to say my local chapter as well(cuz i don't belong to the AMCA?).. Len Dowe #765
P.S. And i think i speak for a lot of us that are down home old folks that just love "old machines"
P.S.S. and were not oblivious to the fact Knotthed!!! just cuz i don't post as many as the newcomers doesn't mean i don't watch!!

[chicagohen]

Len well said.

[exeric]

It's always the same baloney after Eustis and Davenport. It reminds me of boss bashing at the water cooler. Everyone hates the company even though it pays them every Friday. And Len, I think you're wrong. Getting back to basics, and loving old motorcycles has to be in YOU. All the AMCA can do is provide the atmosphere, it's up to you to bring the heart.

[Knotthed]

Len,

I hope you are not offended by what I said as I in no way meant it to offend anyone.

I was simply offering my opinion of what I believed to be the average member of the club. If you read the rest of my statement, you would see that you do not fall into that catergory as you are obviously reading these posts.

I can tell you that my dad is not aware of any of this. He isn't on the computer - doesn't have email per say and is not all wrapped up in political issues with the club and he has been a member for a very long time.

I can also tell you that family oriented motorcycle enthusiasts were brought together and good times were had at Davenport at least on this end of the spectrum. Saw some old friends, talked to some new ones, enjoyed the races and the banquet etc....

So had this post not even appeared, I too would have been oblivous to the happenings going on behind closed doors.

I think all of the happenings with the judging stuff stinks, but maybe in the end it will make the AMCA a better club. I rarely hear any good things about the judging and just think if all of that effort would have been put into documentation instead of criticizing bikes.

I've never had a bike judged, but I have went along on an apprentice judging at Davenport under the old judges and I can tell you that its a darn shame that the knowledge is locked away in peoples heads instead of being available for new restorations at the time of doing it.

I think most people can bake a cake with the proper ingredients and the correct recipe and if you don't have that - well you will struggle for awhile till you get it figured out. That is the current situation in my eyes, the club lets you struggle till you get it figured out, all while having a different head cook. Just think if the ingredients and recipe were available forever more - gosh anyone could crank out a 99 pointer if they really wanted to.

I also don't have any worries about Davenport for next year, I expect it to be a great meet again.

Hope to meet you some day in person.

[len dowe]

With no disrespect...It is in me eric and with all the other AMCA members. We provide the atmosphere and not the AMCA. It would happen without the AMCA "CLUB". Local people with old machines would get together and unite to thier passions and and have "meetings" or get togethers(local dougnut shop or coffe house or someones shop). It doesn't take a "club" to make it happen(thats what i would do). Get rid of the AMCA and people would still get together(and start again) to enjoy thier machines. Simple as that and i don't need a BOD or anybody else for that matter to tell me( us?) what is or if i belong or not(case in point,can't belong to my chapter unless i'm an AMCA member)...Com'on, tell me you wouldn't graduate?(is that the right word? LOl) to people with early bikes? it's in your blood as all of us and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that...I mean really.... len.
P.S. no boss bashing here, i am the boss and i treat my employee's on how i would want to be treated,,simple as that and i would would like to think everybody thought that...but i guess that's not the case, is it? it would be a much better world if we did,,i'm doing my part...and there is no "BALONEY" I walk the line i talk....old school...so to speak(although i dislike that term LOL)

[redfred84]

HI Gang,
I finally back home. Here's my personal take on what transpired at the D'port Meet. As you all know, the BH chapter has decided to continue D'port as a reginal meet next year. This came as a result of a BH "committee meeting". A few months prior to this, the BH Chapter submitted a by-law change amongst themselves to allow for impromdu meetings where the majority at said meeting takes the vote. Hence the change from a National Meet, to a Reginal meet. Most of the BH members were not part of this, nor aware of where this decission came from. Most of the members are aganist going reginal, including ex-BH Prez, Del Shumacher.
The BH BOD was invited to the National BOD meeting in D'port this year, to partake in the dinner, and discuss the topic. During the dinner, BH Chapter Prez was noted setting up a tape recorder. Prez Finney mentioned that he wanted to record the discussion, as he didn't trust what the National Prez would do with the words, since he was a lawyer. I was all for the recording, but the National BOD did not wish to have it recorded, stating that tape could be tampered with. This discussion was held outside in the hotel lobby. The BH BOD chose not to attend our meeting, and started to leave. The National BOD re-conveined their meeting.
Suddenly, there was a lot of very loud F... you shouting, and a barrage to enter the Meeting room. AMCA counsil Wendel was at the door, saying that Finney could not interrupt the meeting ,nor come in. Finney went for Wendel's throat, and had him by the neck, screaming "F... you". It took Matt Olsen to pry Finney off of the 74 year old Wendel. All this was in the lobby area of the Hotel. Finney later mentioned that he just wanted to get his helmet & jacket. All he had to do was mention that in the first place.
This is my personal interpretation of the course of events, and does not represent that of the BOD. I feel that Finney chose to rail road his chapter into having a rogue meet next year to thwart the judging. The BH Chapter is well financed, and the $20 per vender booth take that the National receives doesn not seem to be an issue.
Finney also handed out an un-signed flyer the next day at the Presidents Meeting. This flyer mentioned a rogue, or splinter group, aside from the National. I suspect a group of poor sports, who aim to wreck the Judging of the AMCA. I am well versed in the history of the AMCA Judging since the Peter Hienz days. I am also well aware of the Kevin & Robin issues of late (I was there also, and our re-counts of what really happened differ slightly also). I've been accused of trying to take over the Judging, and be the Chief Judge (nothing can be further from the truth...........NO way would I wish to become the Chief Judge).
Finney seemed to have the deck stacked at the Presidents meeting, as he hired the local Sheriffs (rumored to be BH members also). In the middle of the presentation, Finney demanded the microphone. He got up, approached the podium/head table, and refused to be sit down or be quiet. He kept demanding the microphone during the middle of the presentation. Finally he went into a rage, and threw down his glass case, or recorder, or what ever, and shouted his favorite "Mutha F........" rant again. He then summoned the Sheriffs to take away Prez Spagnolli, and all the BOD members who were at the table! I was sitting in the audiance, and just stayed put. The rest of the Chapter Prez's in attendance were pretty miffed at Finney's behavior, and wanted the BOD admitted back in. Finney tried to apologize, stating that his adrenaline was up to his eyebrows. Eventually, the BOD was welcomed back in, and Finney was asked to leave. The meeting proceeded smoothly afterwards.
One thing that did come up in the meeting, was the account of every penny in the financial reports. Our new treasurer, Jim Gralty was there, and easily explained the process, and what he has been doing to re-organize the books from when Dennis Craig, and Raymond Dhue were at the Treasurey. Remember, Raymond died on us early this year, and we had to scramble to get all the info, etc...... Look forward to "detailed to the penney" account of the finances within days right here on the web site, and of course in the next magazine. We have really hit a home run with Jim as our treasurer.
Please realize that I am a regular member, just like everyone else. I was not happy with some of the BOD issues many years ago, and I opted to join the BOD in an effort to try and change things (if you can't beat them, join them). I submitted my resume for over 10 years before I was eventually picked to fill out the term of Jack Gormely, who resigned due to old age. I am probably the most rebellous of the BOD, and have had many heated debates with some of the other members. If there was anything I thought that stunk, I would be the first to let it out.
I am very impressed with our new Treasurer, and I admire our Prez. Richard Spagnolli has NO personal agenda, and is truely doing things for the good of the Club. He just does them in a Lawyer-like fashion, which drives me up the wall sometimes. Lawyer's aren't my favorite, but Richard is retired from that, and really has the Club in mind with his every action.
OK, now I gotta go have dinner. I hoped I informed everyone of the ugly truths in this incident? Yes, I am on the BOD, and Yes, I am a regular member. I think everyone who knows me, can count on my truthfull account on things, and know where I'm coming from.
Remember, it's all about having fun with our machines, and the Club is one of the main avenues or conduits to do so. It's all for the Good of the Club!
RF.

[Slojo]

RF commented on tape recording the BOD meeting, "stating that tape could be tampered with" Just think what they can do without any tape recordings at all.

RF again, "who aim to wreck the Judging of the AMCA" The only individuals that can and have wrecked the AMCA judging system is the judges themselves.

Joe

[redfred84]

Hey Joe,
We've actually discussed video taping the meetings, recording the meetings, etc..... It's not like we're some East Coast Mafia or something. Trudi has done an excellent job of portraying the minutes, and we now have a new Secretary/BOD member; Kelly from Florida who will take over those duties soon. Plus, you have me as a watch dog. But I hear ya.
In reality, who would be able to get away with the most in our Club structure? Maybe paid trip to Europe to check on the Judges? Gagan & Kevin have done that, but it seems all legit.
As for the Judges themselves wrecking the system! You better take that back! AMCA Judges are hard working volunteers who give up their Sunday mornings (usually quite early) to work thanklessly to uphold this vital ascet of the Club. Yes, they do enjoy a Judge's breakfast ( the BH Chapter's breakfast is the best I've enjoyed). Our AMCA Judges continue to strive through the sour-puss, cry-baby antics of those that are politically motivated to persavier with the due dilligence the Club stands for. AMCA Judging is still the most respected, and admired in the World, as proven by the HVA, FIVA, and Hagerty Insurance to use our services in their certification process soon. We have the most recognized system in the World, and it is all for the betterment of our having fun with this machines. Anyone who thinks otherwise, is either ego motivated, or behind the door. Our AMCA Judges plod along despite the rumors, and shenanigans to help preserve a future reference of our machines. Joe, I think you are way out of line blaming our AMCA Judges for anything. Some may be way more knowledgable on thier specific mark expertise than others, but they are still out there, volunteering for a thankless job.
This all falls under the " Good of the Club" monicer I mentioned in my last post.
Kevin Valintine assigned me as a National Deputy Judge, and he helped me get on the BOD. It would be nice to see Kevin help out and judge sometime. We should all be for the Good of the Club.
RF.

[Lonnie]

Speaking solely for myself and being a witness to the events being discussed, I think the following needs to be noted for those concerned:

1> There was no mention of a jacket and helmet needing retrieval until after the physical altercation at the BoD meeting. Our legal counsel did not raise a hand to the BH president, he only told him he could not enter the room in which the meeting was being held, at which time the physical altercation occurred. Once restrained and calmed, the BH president then said he wanted his jacket and helmet, which he must have left after eating dinner with the BoD as an invited guest (which was prior to the altercation).

2> The affair at the President's meeting was obviously staged, as Red Fred stated. In fact, while the meeting was in progress the BH president left his chair and walked over to the security guards, who were off-duty but uniformed county deputy sheriffs. Shortly after, when given an opportunity to ask a question (which was what the meeting was to be about - questions and answers for the chapter reps), the BH president went into a rant, threw down his cell phone and cursed the National president. He then called the security guards over to have the National prez removed. At that time I and the other BoD members rose from our table and left the building. As he said, Red Fred was in the audience and remained inside. Outside, I made it a point to talk with one of the deputies and told them that if anyone was to be removed, it should have been the person disrupting the meeting not the person presiding over the meeting. I could not hear what happened inside during that time but we were asked by the chapter reps to come back in and finish the meeting. The BH president left, we returned and the meeting continued.

End of story.

[c.o.]

It's sad to hear that this kind of crap can go on at an "Antique Motorcycle" meet. Red Fred, I admire you for jumping in this hornets nest with an explanation. You've more than proven that you have the best interest of this club in mind.

And you as well Lonnie.

[Tom Lovejoy]

Thanks Fred and Lonnie for the first hand account and info. All those folks are volunters, give them credit and try to assist - for the good of the club. Can't please everyone, and their's is a thankless job alot of the time. Gotta try to work together, hat's off to Matt Olson too for steeping in!

[Steve Slocombe]

Dear All, I wasn't at the Board Meeting but heard first hand reports such as Red Fred's. I was at the Presidents' Meeting, and formed the impression that personal animosity between the Blackhawk Chapter President and the Club President was getting in the way of business. For me the highlight of the Presidents' Meeting was the promise to have a financial report in the next magazine showing much more detail than has been seen before.

For Eric, I was at the Board Meeting when the Foundation and the new AMCA were formed, and the vote was to split the old Club Treasury 50/50 between the two entities.

I've talked about 'more democracy' under the Your AMCA Board thread in the past, and discussed it at the Club Steering Committee. As the Board is mostly Chapter Presidents, having the 50+ Presidents vote on Board candidates could be a first step towards fuller representation of the membership. We still need much better communication in the Club, and it has not improved this year.

Like Red Fred, I'd say don't blame the judges for the system. I judged for the 45th time at Davenport, and this is a bunch of guys who are passionate about old bikes and trying to get them as they were built. I put time into the new Judging Handbook and Judging Guidelines, so am of course happy with them.

That's a lot of topics for a short note, so I'll finish by thanking all Blackhawk Chapter members for their hard work in making another great Davenport Meet.

[Slojo]

Hey Joe,
We've actually discussed video taping the meetings, recording the meetings, etc..... It's not like we're some East Coast Mafia or something. Trudi has done an excellent job of portraying the minutes, and we now have a new Secretary/BOD member; Kelly from Florida who will take over those duties soon. Plus, you have me as a watch dog. But I hear ya.
In reality, who would be able to get away with the most in our Club structure? Maybe paid trip to Europe to check on the Judges? Gagan & Kevin have done that, but it seems all legit.
As for the Judges themselves wrecking the system! You better take that back! AMCA Judges are hard working volunteers who give up their Sunday mornings (usually quite early) to work thanklessly to uphold this vital ascet of the Club. Yes, they do enjoy a Judge's breakfast ( the BH Chapter's breakfast is the best I've enjoyed). Our AMCA Judges continue to strive through the sour-puss, cry-baby antics of those that are politically motivated to persavier with the due dilligence the Club stands for. AMCA Judging is still the most respected, and admired in the World, as proven by the HVA, FIVA, and Hagerty Insurance to use our services in their certification process soon. We have the most recognized system in the World, and it is all for the betterment of our having fun with this machines. Anyone who thinks otherwise, is either ego motivated, or behind the door. Our AMCA Judges plod along despite the rumors, and shenanigans to help preserve a future reference of our machines. Joe, I think you are way out of line blaming our AMCA Judges for anything. Some may be way more knowledgable on thier specific mark expertise than others, but they are still out there, volunteering for a thankless job.
This all falls under the " Good of the Club" monicer I mentioned in my last post.
Kevin Valintine assigned me as a National Deputy Judge, and he helped me get on the BOD. It would be nice to see Kevin help out and judge sometime. We should all be for the Good of the Club.
RF.

Fred

"RF again, "who aim to wreck the Judging of the AMCA" The only individuals that can and have wrecked the AMCA judging system is the judges themselves.

"

I know judging is a thankless job and no mater what, problems will result in "picking apart someone's bike".
Judges must be honest and thorough or they will lose the respect of the judged.

Joe

[T. Cotten]

... Most of the BH members were not part of this, nor aware of where this decission came from. Most of the members are aganist going reginal, .....

RF!

I have been a Blackhawk Chapter member for many, many years, and from my sampling of the membership, ALL were in favor of going Regional.

You are obviously attempting to spin things to your personal tastes, and you discredit yourself badly.

....Cotten