Early Motorcycle publications

[Tommo]

Recently I was loaned two editions of Motor Vehicles and Motors, 1902 edition and 1906 edition, and thought the infomation contained in them may be of interest to Herb and others but I couldn't find the Pennington thread so I've put it here.
I've scaned the header page and attached it but research tells me there is a 1900 edition as well which I think would be very interesting.
Have you seen these books Herb?
Each edition is about 650 pages and I've photocopyed the Motor cycle section (about 70 pages in each edition) of the 02 and 06 editions so if anyone wants copies sing out and I'll do them for the cost of copying plus postage.
In the 1902 edition there is a good description of the "Columbia Motor Carrier Tricycle" made by Pope Manufacturing Co. and archivists here in NZ say if the book is published in 1902 the material contained in it will be of 1901 and earlier.
Have a look at the attachment and keep 1901 in mind.
Enjoy.

[Tommo]

To go with the previous post

[c.o.]

Pretty interesting stuff Tommo! I'm thinking with a light load in that "Carrier" and the rider's seating position that an unexpected pot-hole or bump in the road could result in a close call!!!

[HarleyCreation]

Tommo,

Thanks for the info on that publication. No, I had not seen them. But in a few days I'll be visiting a major library and I just checked and two volumes are listed in their holdings. Not sure which years as it states "1900-1906." Possibly I can make copies of the motorcycle section then. It looks like some new material.

[Ross]

I'm on the road heading for Waseon but I have a 1910 copy with about the same number of pages on motorcycles. It will be for sale at my spot ( shameless plug)

[Tommo]

Herb,
The following are well worth a read if you haven't already done so. The Walford one especially so.
The British Motorcycle Industry by Eric W. Walford 1931
The History and Developments of Motorcycles by C.F. Caunter 1955
Veteran and Vintage Motorcycles by James Sheldon 1961

[BPK!!]

Tommo,
Any mention in the 1902 issue of "The Keating" motorcycle?? Pictures perhaps? Greatly appreciated--BPK!!

[HarleyCreation]

Herb,
The following are well worth a read if you haven't already done so. The Walford one especially so.
The British Motorcycle Industry by Eric W. Walford 1931
The History and Developments of Motorcycles by C.F. Caunter 1955
Veteran and Vintage Motorcycles by James Sheldon 1961

I have the Walford and Sheldon works but have not seen the book by Caunter. But I just checked and the library I plan to visit on Monday also has a copy of that one. I've added it to my list of things to examine. Thanks for the lead!

[HarleyCreation]

Tommo,
Any mention in the 1902 issue of "The Keating" motorcycle?? Pictures perhaps? Greatly appreciated--BPK!!

BPK,

You know about the Keating/Harley-Davidson patent connection, right? The ones that refer to the "mystery" patent dates on the the early Bar & Shield decal.

[Tommo]

BPK and interested parties,
Sorry no Keating.
The 1902 edition covers the following;
MOTORCYCLES
De Dion Bouton, Pernoo, Blessing, Sanicome, Carcano, Lawson, Werner and Holden
TRICYCLES
De Dion, Phebus, Ariel, Renaux, Turrell-Bollee, Simms and Columbia
GEARBOXES
Didier, Eldin and Cherrier.

The 1906 edition covers;
MOTORCYCLES
Ormond, Holden, Humber, Werner, Rex, Singer, Clement-Garrard and Minerva.

Some but not all of the above mentioned marques are covered in detail but as with any publication it is only by reading it all that those little gems of information appear.

[BPK!!]

Herb,
I know that Keating sued Harley in 1917 for patent infringement. My understanding, the first three patents on Harleys' patent decal our Keatings patents and not Harleys. I bet you have taken it much deeper than what I have mentioned here! Would greatly appreciate what you have uncovered on the Keating/Harley connection!
Tommo--Thanks for checking on any listing in the magizines for me-appreciated--BPK!!
Brian Keating, #2930--home of the only known example of the 1902 Keating Motorcycle--before Harley+Indian!!

[HarleyCreation]

Herb,
I know that Keating sued Harley in 1917 for patent infringement. My understanding, the first three patents on Harleys' patent decal our Keatings patents and not Harleys. I bet you have taken it much deeper than what I have mentioned here! Would greatly appreciate what you have uncovered on the Keating/Harley connection!
Tommo--Thanks for checking on any listing in the magizines for me-appreciated--BPK!!
Brian Keating, #2930--home of the only known example of the 1902 Keating Motorcycle--before Harley+Indian!!

Brian,

Have you found the Keating-H-D lawsuit? It might be good reading.

I did cover the Keating patents in the At the Creation book. Because some people were looking at those early dates (c1900 & 1901?) and then saying that H-D had an earlier history than we knew. But when the patents turned out to be Keatings that bubble was burst. I don't believe Bill Harley took out his first patent until around 1909. But after that they followed fast and furious.

Are you related to the original Keating of mc fame? Can you tell us anything else about him. Like you say, he had a mc very early in the century.

Was there any sort of Keating-Pennington connection? That's something to watch for since the big man touched down just about everywhere....

[BPK!!]

Keating Motorcycle

DSCN4515.JPGDSCN4504.JPGHey Herb,
My oldest brother(Rob) is the one doing the research and presently knee deep in writing a book on the subject! Please refer to my website (www.keatingwheelcompany.com) and refer to the "About us" page.. This will give you some idea as to R.M.Keating. Theres no relation in our extensive family tree, but I'm a spitting emage of R.M.! I forwarded the infomation pertaining to any possible connection if any to Pennington to my brother! Appreciate your interest, and if you come across any literature on the Keating Motorcycle, let me know--Thanks, BPK!!

[HarleyCreation]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]6889[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]6890[/ATTACH]Hey Herb,
My oldest brother(Rob) is the one doing the research and presently knee deep in writing a book on the subject! Please refer to my website (www.keatingwheelcompany.com) and refer to the "About us" page.. This will give you some idea as to R.M.Keating. Theres no relation in our extensive family tree, but I'm a spitting emage of R.M.! I forwarded the infomation pertaining to any possible connection if any to Pennington to my brother! Appreciate your interest, and if you come across any literature on the Keating Motorcycle, let me know--Thanks, BPK!!

Brian,

It wouldn't be surprising if Pennington does show up. The list of guys he inspired is pretty extensive.

I know that I've seen something on the Keating motorcycle in some early c1901-02 mag. Either Motor Age or Horseless Age I think. If I run across it again I'll let you know.

[talbot-2]

I recently found a copy of the June 1, 1904, issue of the "Cycle and Automobile Trade Journal" publication.

The advertisements section included ads for the following motorcycles: Marsh; Indian; Yale-California; Merkel; Columbia, Cleveland, and Tribune, by the Pope Mfg. of Hartford, Conn.; Thoroughbred by Reading Standard; Tourist by Breeze Motors; Rambler, Crescent, Monarch, and Imperial by the Pope Mfg. of Chicago; Wagner; and an Armac. Plus an ad by Harry Geer of St. Louis.

In the "classified-for sale" the following motorcycles were for sale: Holley; 1904 Merkel; Cleveland; (2) Merkels; 1902 Indian; Orient; 1903 Indian; Columbia, model A; and a 1902 Thomas. Harry Geer advertised a 1904 Imperial, 1904 Reading Standard, 1904 America, 1904 Mitchell (4), 1904 Orient (2), Marsh (2), Thomas, Hercules, 1904 Indian, and a 1903 Indian for sale.

Interesting to note is "what is not there". No Harley-Davidson ads and no H-D's for sale in the classifieds. Too early.

The publication also contained many motorcycle related accessory ads as well.