A photo (I hope)

[JohnR]

[c.o.]

Ahhh... Wagners!!! Very cool!!!

[exeric]

What do you think Cory; 1909 Wagners? I see they are sponsored by G&J double clincher tire co. I wonder if double clincher tires held to the rim better than a standard clincher tire? Of course you need a double clincher rim to go with that tire.

[c.o.]

Yes sir, I'd go with '09!

[talbot-2]

The Wagner photo is one of several from a collection of photos owned by Ken Arnold a gentleman who I met at the Davenport meet in 2009. He was displaying motorcycle photos for sale from his father's estate. The photos were of Ken's grandfather and were taken beginning in 1907. The photos interested me since Ken's grandfather, Edward Arnold, was the owner of the "Arnold Motorcycle Co." a dealer in "Wagner and Excelsior" motorcycles, from about 1907 to 1920, in Logansport, Indiana, about 50 miles northwest of Indianapolis.

If you go to www.granddadsbikerpics.com you will find the photos. In photo #1, four men from Logansport, Indiana, with their 1907 Wagner "strap tank" motorcycles standing front of the front door of the "G & J Tire Company" in Indianapolis. Note the "Solar" type motorcycle headlights. (The "G & J Tire Company" was located on the south side of East Georgia Street between South East Street and South Noble (College) Avenue in Indianapolis. "G & J" was located adjacent to the Indianapolis Rubber Company which became the U.S. Rubber Company.) In the fall of 1907, Ed Arnold, his brother and two cousins rode from "Indianapolis to Denver" as an advertisement touting "G & J Double Clincher" motorcycle tires. The sign on the rear wheels of their motorcycles advertises their adventure. Photo #2, the one in this thread, is of Ed and his brother J. Leroy. The other photos on the website display an interesting history of the Arnold Motorcycle Company. For some unknown reason, none of Ken's generation were aware of the motorcycle history of their grandfather.

Sometime after meeting Ken, I found an article on page 84 of the March, 1908, "Motorcycle Illustrated" magazine that was sent in as a letter to the editor, by the G & J Tire Co. in Indianapolis and tells the story of four friends who rode from Indianapolis to Denver in the fall of 1907 on G & J tires. There is also a copy of the text of the letter sent to G & J by "Ed. W. Arnold". The letter from Mr. Arnold extols the quality of the G & J tires used on their trip. It also notes that they rode over the "Gascondy River railroad bridge" while riding through central Missouri. If you go to http://bridgehunter.com/mo/osage/gascondy/ you will find photos of the bridge that the foursome rode over in 1907. A real scary ride, then and now. The article can be found in the "Motorcycle Illustrated" magazines that have been digitized by Google.

The photos present an interesting pictorial view into the history of an early motorcycle dealer.

Sadly, no one, to the best of my knowledge, currently makes "double clincher" tires for the early motorcycles. Using the standard current production "28 X 2 1/2" replacement tires on "double clincher" rims is generally considered unsafe for riding. Many early motorcycles had "double clincher" rims including early Indians.

Please note that I have no financial interest in Mr. Arnold's sales endeavor. Just interested in motorcycle history........and sharing the history research with others.

[Chris Haynes]

These prints are only $149.00 each. They must be printed on Tazmanian paper.

[exeric]

I had a friend that was looking for double clincher rims for his Curtiss. Knowing that you can't get tires for them, I wondered why he wanted them. In looking at the rims on the the Wagners, they appear to be of a slightly higher profile than a standard clincher rim. Is that true, and are there other features that distinguish them from standard clinchers?

[talbot-2]

I had a friend that was looking for double clincher rims for his Curtiss. Knowing that you can't get tires for them, I wondered why he wanted them. In looking at the rims on the the Wagners, they appear to be of a slightly higher profile than a standard clincher rim. Is that true, and are there other features that distinguish them from standard clinchers?

I have a copy of a "G & J" double clincher tire ad that shows a cross section of a "double clincher" rim. I'll see if I can find it, scan it and post it soon.

Your friend with the Curtiss no doubt wants the cycle to be as original. That is, if his Curtiss originally had double clincher rims.

[talbot-2]

I have a copy of a "G & J" double clincher tire ad that shows a cross section of a "double clincher" rim. I'll see if I can find it, scan it and post it soon.

Your friend with the Curtiss no doubt wants the cycle to be as original. That is, if his Curtiss originally had double clincher rims.

I found the ad, but my scanner doesn't seem to want to communicate with my computer. So, I suggest the following. Do a "Google" search for "Motorcycle Illustrated 1909". When the results appear, click on the "Motorcycle Illustrated - Google Books Result, 1909 Sports & Recreation". Once the file downloads, scroll down in the January 1, 1909, issue to page 24 and 25 for the ad. It has a good photo of a cross section view of a "double clincher" rim.

Don't miss the good photos on the first page before the January 1 issue of the 1909 Thor singles.

There's also some good reading in the AMCA Forum archive. At the top right of the forum page in the white space, type in "double clincher" and hit enter. Then scroll to the thread titled "Tires for Double Clincher" rims.

[c.o.]

talbot-2, your input is always appreciated!!! This is what it's all about... The only problem I have is I only get the snippet view on those magazines. I'm curious to know if folks in other countries have the same trouble.

I checked out the web-site you posted and it says the picture was taken circa 1907. Are these bikes earlier than Eric and I guessed?

[c.o.]

Here's an interesting link.... http://occhiolungo.wordpress.com/201...er-motorcycle/

[Chris Haynes]

I believe that Wagner necks were used on the early H-D frames.

[talbot-2]

talbot-2, your input is always appreciated!!! This is what it's all about... The only problem I have is I only get the snippet view on those magazines. I'm curious to know if folks in other countries have the same trouble.

I checked out the web-site you posted and it says the picture was taken circa 1907. Are these bikes earlier than Eric and I guessed?

Yes, the "Arnold" photos numbered 1 and 2 were taken in 1907 at the beginning of their trip from Indianapolis to Denver, Colorado. Photo number one was taken in front of the "G & J Tire Company" factory in Indianapolis. Interesting to note, I recall seeing the front of the building when I accompanied my Grandfather on his travels to and from work during the late '40's and early '50's.

[c.o.]

Alright, it looks like we were a couple years off... Cool story about riding along with the Grandparents!!!

[talbot-2]

Eric, are you able to pull up the "Motorcycle Illustrated" magazine issues on Google? C.O is not able to pull up the entire magazine up in Canada. I have never had a problem here in the U.S. I have downloaded all of them to my computer for easier viewing. They contain some really interesting early motorcycle information.