"Stiffs List"

[T. Cotten]

If I can put a little more perspective on my intent:

Most stiffs probably aren't AMCA members, and likelyhood of rancorous replies is low.

My hope was to benefit the 'industry'. Restorers and vendors often have a hard time making ends meet, so it would certainly help to be aware of risks!

...Cotten

[Paps]

I agree Cotten, but I just think it best to keep the imformation between the brotherhood of restorers, vendors, and buyers in order to keep a bad rap from being trumped up or even worse. Reputations can be totally destroyed in a wink of a knats eye lash if one individual decides to spite a vendor or a buyer just because of their childish nature or maybe just because they are a total *%@ hole. I can remember not to long ago an individual who set out to trash a mighty fine vendor over minor descrepancies in parts and parts quality. The vendor did all that was possible to satisfy that disgrunted individual. I believe you can remember the very same incident. Without mentioning any names, vendor or buyer, the vendor was slapped all over the place with blantant untrue accusations. Although, as you know, this particular vendor survived that uncalled for assult on his integrety and company. For many a month though, that vendor was looked upon as a possible swindler by the general consumer, all because of this no good, hard to claim a gender individuals slanderous, but very creative mouth. The public didn't know he was lying when he spued his crap. I see this incident possibly occurring from the other angle if allowed as well. That is why I disagree with any such posts, not to mention my other concerns which I already stated. I feel confortable enough when You, or many others whom I have come to know and trust, tell me to be careful dealing with so and so than I do when I read an unfamiliar names' negative post. I don't over look that negative post by those individuals but I don't actually take it for granted either. If I have doubts, I ask around to the folks I already know and respect like yourself. Bread and butter it is when you vend and the rip offs do not deserve any mercy but we must arm ourselves with the best tools to prevent them from taking a bite out of us. Trashing even those individuals publicly could not only take a bite out of us....it could get us completely devoured by some big shot attorney. Paps

[LouieMCman]

I think it's a bad idea to post your problems on this forum. I don't, why would I want to read yours? Seems to me if you do your business right, how can some one get away with oweing a $2000.
If a vendor sells me something, I NEVER get it before I pay. If a vendor builds my motor, I don't get it UNTIL I pay for it. If a vendor operates any different then that, he just might get ripped off. But I don't want to read about it. I was in business for 8 years and never got ripped off, it was not a motorcycle business, but business is business. I personally think motorcycle people are some of the most honest, but nothing is 100%.

Louie

[T. Cotten]

Paps!
I thought this forum was within the "the brotherhood of restorers, vendors, and buyers"....?

And Louie!
You don't have to read about it you do not want to. Do you force yourself to read all sections of this forum?
Obviously I am just not as hard-arsed and cynical as thee, as I enjoy having the best customers in the World, with just a few occasional exceptions.
(Vendors must all make a note to put you on their pay-in-advance-only list!)

So it's open-season on vendors, but errant buyers are sacred cows?

....Cotten

[jww]

We have a "Vendors Rated" section. The negative entries were vigorously defended, possibly clarifying or reassuring the originator of the post that "everything will work out", or letting the originator of the post know that sympathy regarding this transaction won't be granted amoung this group. The goal is to share information to promote our mutual passion. If your a vendor in any industry and lack a passion for it, you won't be around long. From a vendors point of view, I stand by my previous statement......If I can rate a vendor on this forum, a vendor should be allowed to rate me as a customer on this forum. Being less concerned about Vendor Feedback than Customer Feedback is not the point. I read and learn from this forum by choice, if I don't have an interest in a topic I just don't click the mouse.
A possible answer to this topic is a "Vendors Only" section, with a seperate login and password. Reluctant to even suggest givin the current length of topics, but it might allow the vendors of the industry an avenue to communicate. No i'm not a vendor, but my hobby is enhanced by there strength.
johnny

[KDR]

johnny, I like that suggestion the best.

I don't post here much, just read a lot, but this post hits home in more ways than one. If we had a system like johnny suggest, be it here, or another forum, it could save a lot of people some heartache.

For example, in 2002 I had several orders from Indonesia, nothing really out of the ordinary because I ship there every month. Every order was via credit card and my provider authorized each transaction. All orders were shipped and things were just fine......until about 45 days later when my mailbox was stuffed full of charge backs from the CC companies. Somehow, this, or these individuals had access to the credit card numbers even before the owner received it. To make a very long and confusing story short, it cost me a lot of money, both in loss of merchandise and fees that I had to pay the Banks for the charge backs. To top it off, I lost my ability to charge CC's in the States and was put on the CC blacklist for 5 years.....meaning I couldn't be picked up by any other provider in the States. I posted this information on FHP and saved several other vendors, including my competitors the same fate as myself. Unfortunately, it also revealed that there was others caught in the scam.

It would be nice, maybe unrealistic, but nice all the same if there was a place to post problem people for Vendors to steer clear of, or handle differently then they normally would.

Kurt

[LouieMCman]

My point was that if I want a product or service. I pay for it at the time of service. Isn't that the definition of business. If someone fixes someone's car and let's him drive it away without paying, who is the real idiot? I'm not defending either the vendor or customer. I vend at the Eustis meet, but you better not try and carry something away with out paying!

Louie

[jww]

Louie,
You make a good point.....the definition of business. Problem is in todays world there are many interpretations. I value the few vendors we have in this arena who will ship parts with invoice attached. Loyalty and trust are fast becoming a thing of the past, but for those of us who value it, vendors and customers alike, its hard to give up on the old school concept without becoming so hardend that you don't enjoy what your doing. In my business, its Net 30, and I combat receivables every day. Last point and I'm going to get on the phone and threaten some customers: If the serious vendors in the motorcycle restoration and parts business want to continue to survive in the ever changing business environment........they will serve themselves as well as their good customers by having some sort of venue to communicate regarding the undesirable customers. Every time a good vendor loses money on a bad customer, it cost we the good customer more money............thats business
Best Regards
johnny

[Paps]

Yes it is Cotten...but all can read it.

I like Johnny's idea too Kurt. Set up correctly it would be well balanced and best of all safe.

Received a Nigerian email today Kurt. The fella wants to buy 1000 spark plugs of different heats and he wants to pay with a credit card. Sound familiar ? Maybe a bit like the Indonesia orders ?

The weather will be breaking soon Folks !! What little winter weather we had up here in the northern hemisphere.
Paps

[INLINE4NUT]

parquette I realize this is how you make your money,its a hobby for me and always will be ! Dont get your panties in a knot stop cryin **** it up and go on SO SORRY YOU HATE THE WORLD BECAUSE OF A FEW DEAD BEATS GROW UP! HAVE AGOOD DAY!!

[Paquette]

Inline4nut---I do not hate the world my friend, far from it. My relationships with motorcycle folks makes my life good as I provide quality service for a fair price. As you are not a vendor that has been had by other so called hobbyists perhaps you do not understand how we feel getting stiffed. And by the way I am still waiting for all those copies of accessory catalogs you were going to send me , what a year ago ?

[T. Cotten]

Let me keep it short,
Uncle Ridnick Wysdom told me "Don't trust anyone who doesn't trust anyone."
(Sorry Louie.)

Whew INline4nut! Just WHO has their panties the tightest?? Please read all of the posts over again for context before a personal attack.

And Kurt, I have had good Indonesian customers too, so yes, we need a few "buffers" to help us sort out scams.
But the AMCA can only offer this forum for us to use. And it seems the consumers feel threatened. (Why?)
And AdminGuy is probably pulling his hair!
(It is not his responsibility, I'm certain. Any real changes will obviously be a Board decision.)

Liberty's policy of trust will not change, but the future of vintage cycling would certainly benefit from some security measures that the AMCA can foster, no matter how slight or insignificant they might seem.

...Cotten

[B. Rodencal]

Pa,
Got two different Spark Plug purchase emails today too, Must be the flavor of the month scam. Kurt You saved a lot of folks out there a lot of grief, me included! There was no formal forum topic for your post then, but yet you got your point across. Georges Motorcycle trader has a section for airing grievances with trades, and purchases and funny, but the stiffs all tend to be about the same 3 doinks! Like in anything there tend to be 99.9 percent good people and .1 percent doinks. I have to agree that I don't want this forum to become a soap opera as some other antique sites have become as of late. I would vote to remove the vendor rating section before adding a customer rating one. Take care of business from a vendor standpoint and Caveat emptor for the customer and capitolism will survive. Next year is my 10th anniversary of FatDog Vintage Salvage on the web. and I have yet to be stiffed. Knock on wood (My Head)

[Paquette]

Thanks Cotten--I am just trying to run a business and express my opinions----