"Stiffs List"

[T. Cotten]

We have a section dedicated for customers to rate vendors; Is it appropriate for vendors to warn others about deadbeats?

...Cotten

[Paquette]

Cotten--Thats a good question. I would love to list a couple of folks that I have done seat repairs for and trusted them to pay but got stiffed. It would be a humiliation factor for sure but I guess I will just chalk it up to lessons learned. Plus I believe what goes around comes around.

[INLINE4NUT]

I personally wouldnt see why anybody would mind! I also would hope more than one try was made to collect the monies owed ! We do a buyhere/payhere plan @ my carlot and it works pretty slick but when someone doesnt pay I try and give then more than enough room to make it good !

Heres Hoping you both Get you MONEY and Cotten youve always been more than fair with me i hope some deadbeat doesnt ruin it all for all of us!

[AdminGuy]

Good point. Valid.

I'm thinking off the cuff -that maybe that's something you should put up on your own site and delete the names when things get resolved. Lots of legal implications behind this.

[T. Cotten]

My concerns are edit-ability over time, such as if payment is finally received, or the individual is deceased. (Really stiff!)
It seems like we have too many forum sections already, so I would suggest renaming Vendors Rated to "Thanks and Cranks" or "Good Guys and Bad Guys" or whatever gets the point across. I'm sure someone can think of something appropriate, to be selected by our Administrator of course.

I doubt that few will ever collect on the accounts that are posted, but it might help others avoid getting stiffed.
And obviously, I would like to know who is stiffing other vendors before I find out the hard way!

There should be some guidelines, of course, perhaps a three month overdue threshold, and a limit on the offender's vitals (to protect the innocent?).

Something like:

Darryl Mers*****, LaSalle Illinois, '47 Chief; $1200+

Any constructive ideas?

[T. Cotten]

AdminGuy!

I was typing while your last reply was posted.

Most of us, myself included, have no site of our own.

Is there more liability than the "Vendors Rated" has already opened the door for?

[rousseau]

Bad Idea Cotton

This section would degrade into a "feedback" forum like on Ebay.
Lets say you (or someone) posted that Dennis Rousseau was slow to pay and he is a "deadbeat". Then thier would surely be a rebuttal . Rousseau would say "Cotton does poor work and he'll get paid when he makes it right" Then it would go down hill from there.
If you feel a need to blacklist your customers IMO it should be done elesewhere.

[T. Cotten]

Rousseau!

Your opinion is appreciated.

So it's okay if vendors are condemned, but not customers?


...Cotten

[jww]

Saw that one coming, very good point Cotten. If I as a customer have the option to publish press then its only just for the vendors to have the same option. The key is ADMINGUY, who has done and to our benefit will continue to keep this forum reputable and free of personal differences being vented thru his ability to monitor and delete. If I can say Cotten's floats sink......he should be able to say I don't pay my bills. Now if I can just keep the Postal Service straight on delivering my checks to Cotten, neither of those examples will be true! Hee Hee

[koanes]

Tom, You forgot the old adage, "The Customer Is Always Right". If that is true, when you think the customer owes you money and he says he doesn't, using one rational or another, you must be wrong. I have only been stiffed a few times in 24 yrs. of motorcycle business. I adhere to a strict policy of payment on delivery. Those that balk at that arrangement do not trust me enough to be my customer or are planning on beating me out of some hard earned cash. On your question, while I think it is best to keep these matters between you and your customer, it is true that certain people will exploit every available resource until their reputation catches up with them. Could save some other vendors from abuse. Those that find the postings offensive need not look at them.

[T. Cotten]

Kyle!

I admit upfront that I am much too trusting. (And you know how bad I am at billing!)

Like the time I helped a customer load his machine, then went back in the shop for the paperwork. He split, and I lost ~$2200. (Never do anything for an old highschool classmate.)

Or the individual I mentioned previously. He wanted to install his powerplant and bring back the chassis for me to finish. Then he refused because I took cost-shaving shortcuts that he had personally dictated. Oi!

Then there are lost accounts that may only be 'acts of God'. I think I lost one account to the second hurricane in Florida in '04, but how will I ever find out?

This brave new cyberworld is something that we are only beginning to explore, and learning to use it without causing grief will be difficult for all of us.
But the restoration industry and the future of vintage motorcycling depends upon it.

....Cotten

[Paquette]

I agree that it would probably end up as a web based shouting match. And yes Inline, I have been sending one " customer" an invoice every month for 3 years!!!!!! I used to be very trusting and still am with some of my repeat customers, but for most it is pay me and I will ship it to you------

[INLINE4NUT]

Ok, I to would hate to see it be down graded to an E-Bay thing but I do think Cottens point is valid ! If you can complain about sellers then you should be able to complain about nonpaying customers! But I didnt enter into to this to get into a p*ssin match with anyone! You people for BIKERS are way to sensitive!
HAVE A GOOD DAY !

[Paquette]

Excuse me but we are way to sensitive--We are talking about money here and providing parts/ and or service to other so called bikers--No they are low down non-paying scum in my book------This is the way we make a living and every little bit hurts, not only in the pocket book, but to see the way this hobby, passion, or whatever you want to call it is headed----

[Paps]

I wasn't going to chime in on this but ....heck...why shouldn't I. I believe the legal issues are very important, such as slander and character defamation, and as others have stated, I wouldn't want this to turn into an ebay kind of forum either. Lord knows I can relate to late payments, from others to me and from me to others. Dozens of times to me. Late to make good is not the norm for me but it has happened to me more than once. Only because, the people I got behind on, due to no fault of my own, know my character and my honesty, were the only reasons they continued to have faith in me to follow through with clearing my debt. I know first hand how legit circumstances can lead to delinqency either by a seller or by a buyer. I have experienced both in my lifetime. And yes....there are those who are just plain dead beats, who had and will never have any intention, of making good on their debt. I also agree that it is fair in all respects to bad talk a buyer if it is also fair to bad talk a seller. I really think bad talk about either is no good to all concerned and those issues should be addressed elsewhere with other means between the seller and the buyers. There are other alternatives a buyer can take against a seller. Foremost, he can boycot ever purchasing from him again. Secondly, he can turn him into the BBB where potential unaware customers can look for feedback on him, which can help with him in a possible purchasing decision. On the other hand, the seller has some what different steps he can go by, but he can hold his goods until all debt is made by the buyer. He has the option of turning the buyer into a collection agency which will ruin his credit. He can sue.The seller can also communicate between other sellers about a customers credibility, called word of mouth with truth. As I said before...I have been burned before also. But !!! Because, in the few times where it may have looked like I was going to burn someone, and I did not, those individuals will still deal with me. Because of these individuals, I work my dealings with others in the same like manner. I've never posted a complaint about another vendor on this forum or any other, although I have been very dissapointed with several vendors and or their products and their customer service or return policies. I don't deal with those vendors anymore. I deal with those who have created or are attempting to create a respectable image for themselves by the way they follow through with their business practices and policies, and yes....their line of quality products and workmanship. Price isn't my priority, though it has to be within reason. I operate the buyer side of this the same identical way. The most powerful tool a seller or buyer has in his arsenal is caution. Always use it and you won't get burned illegitimately. My 2 cents....sorry for the edits on my spelling and grammar. It probably is still hard to read as it is. Paps