AMCA Membership fees to increase to $40 in July

[BoschZEV]

(boy, am I going to be embarrassed if I've been staring at the link and just haven't noticed it).

A kindly soul sent me a PM pointing out where the link is. At the bottom of the page where I never look, because important links are always in obvious places like the top of pages labeled with names like "Quick Links." Further, unless the cursor is placed over it/them it appears to be a single "contact us" link to send emails to the webmaster. So, I'm not embarrassed for not having found where it was hiding from view.

[exeric]

The following link is an extensive dialogue about an AMCA virtual library. Just about every aspect was covered, and had the participation of many members who no longer contribute anything to this forum (for whatever that is worth). I think this library concept has been made too complex. Scanning documents is simple, and easy, hosting sites are free, and it doesn't all have to be done in one session. A virtual library can be a growing entity that can be added to, and improved with member contributions. If things are mis-catalogued, or misplaced; they can be copied and pasted where they belong. Just like this forum, an administrator can monitor the contributions, and correct mis-catalogued items. . . But, this has all been talked to death, and without enthusiastic support from members, and the BOD; it is a moot, and pointless subject.

http://www.antiquemotorcycle.org/bbo...t=amca+library

[tfburke3]

A comprehensive on-line library is a great idea. Except...

I have at least a few hundred sales brochures. If they averaged only 5 pages each, it still would take at least 10 min. to scan each one, combine into a pdf, give it a useful name, and upload it to a site. Adding that up, it represents approx. 40 hours of full time work.

The site itself would have to be protected against unauthorized people hacking into it and uploading spam, because that certainly would happen otherwise. The security would have to be much more comprehensive than just that of allowing registered AMCA members to upload.

To digress for a second. On the subject of "security" of websites, there isn't even a link on this Forum to take someone to the AMCA homepage. One might think the "Quick Links" button would contain a link to the mother homepage, but no, the AMCA site is secure from anyone finding it from this Forum. (boy, am I going to be embarrassed if I've been staring at the link and just haven't noticed it).

OK, so say the security problem is taken care of. Since it's unlikely I would sit doing nothing but scan for a full 40-hour week, that work might take a few months to accomplish. That means I would have to devise a system to keep track of what I scanned and what still remained to be scanned. Meanwhile, unless an appropriate "registration" system were put in place to keep it from happening, someone else could be spending their time scanning the very same brochures. And that's just the brochures. I also have hundreds of workshop and parts manuals, each of which is many more than 5 pages long.

Having at least some experience in organizing and archiving information, my guess is that at a minimum it would take a full time IT/library specialist several years to develop an organizational structure, set up the software, and tweak it as problems were identified. And that's assuming the IT/library specialist not only was good at their job in general, but was able to learn what motorcyclists needed in particular. If they weren't good, it would be a few hundred $k of good money after bad before that might be apparent enough that action to replace them was initiated. Even if they were good, If they got a better job offer a year into setting things up, it would be almost like starting from scratch for their replacement.

The point of this isn't to discourage the idea of an on-line library, but to illustrate that it would require a lot more careful thought and time to implement than just getting volunteers to agree to scan their collections (as if that wouldn't be a lot of work just in itself).

Well I don't know much about websites,but if the hired help can build a site to post videos I thought photos would be nice.
Perhaps instead of focusing recruitment efforts on Women and young members(and I like both),the BOD should try to attract(HIRE?)Historians,Photogaphers,Librarian etc.,or maybe people who have these skills are already on the Magazine payroll.
Tom

[BoschZEV]

A comprehensive on-line library is a great idea. Except...

I have at least a few hundred sales brochures. If they averaged only 5 pages each, it still would take at least 10 min. to scan each one, combine into a pdf, give it a useful name, and upload it to a site. Adding that up, it represents approx. 40 hours of full time work.

The site itself would have to be protected against unauthorized people hacking into it and uploading spam, because that certainly would happen otherwise. The security would have to be much more comprehensive than just that of allowing registered AMCA members to upload.

To digress for a second. On the subject of "security" of websites, there isn't even a link on this Forum to take someone to the AMCA homepage. One might think the "Quick Links" button would contain a link to the mother homepage, but no, the AMCA site is secure from anyone finding it from this Forum. (boy, am I going to be embarrassed if I've been staring at the link and just haven't noticed it).

OK, so say the security problem is taken care of. Since it's unlikely I would sit doing nothing but scan for a full 40-hour week, that work might take a few months to accomplish. That means I would have to devise a system to keep track of what I scanned and what still remained to be scanned. Meanwhile, unless an appropriate "registration" system were put in place to keep it from happening, someone else could be spending their time scanning the very same brochures. And that's just the brochures. I also have hundreds of workshop and parts manuals, each of which is many more than 5 pages long.

Having at least some experience in organizing and archiving information, my guess is that at a minimum it would take a full time IT/library specialist several years to develop an organizational structure, set up the software, and tweak it as problems were identified. And that's assuming the IT/library specialist not only was good at their job in general, but was able to learn what motorcyclists needed in particular. If they weren't good, it would be a few hundred $k of good money after bad before that might be apparent enough that action to replace them was initiated. Even if they were good, If they got a better job offer a year into setting things up, it would be almost like starting from scratch for their replacement.

The point of this isn't to discourage the idea of an on-line library, but to illustrate that it would require a lot more careful thought and time to implement than just getting volunteers to agree to scan their collections (as if that wouldn't be a lot of work just in itself).

[exeric]

You're opening a can of worms when you talk about the library. I agree that it should be a first class knowledge center for our members but that takes. . . Ready for it. . . . Volunteers.

This was all discussed at great length 5 or 6 years ago. The library has also been a money pit, with no direction, or promotion. Again, that isn't all the clubs fault, you have to have volunteers, or one individual that is passionately committed to the project.

I suggested that Winner's Circle bikes should be documented by the owner with tons of pictures, and comments. For this, the owner of the bike should be given a special award, and recognition in the club magazine as an incentive for going to the trouble of documenting their bike.

There should also be some way to encourage people to scan photos, and publications for the member's benefit. However, that never goes anywhere as you can see on this forum, very few people make the effort to put up pictures.

Personally, I think most of our members are lazy, apathetic and perhaps selfish, and have no interest in sharing what they have. I have posted many pictures, and documented my bike builds. I think it is critical to our club to share what we know, and what we have in the way of literature, and pictures. Unfortunately, you can see that very few of our members think that way and the generous few like T. Cotton, Cory, Shaky Jake, Duffey, Chris Haynes, Sihr, Mark Masa, etc, etc. are not getting the credit they deserve. Sorry for the rant. . . I feel better now

[tfburke3]

If I could make a "task-specific" donation to the club it would be for a massive overhaul of the club's library. You are on point when you say that Facebook is a gateway to the club. The library could (should?) be an open book, IMO; open the cover and view it for hours. Find something you want.
The club could make public to all, the topic covers, and make public to all members the entire contents.
The books and the contents are a very small offering, currently. They could be much more.

I think the Library has lots potential .Maybe a section for winner circle bike photos or photo section like the video feature.
I think you should be able to go to the AMCA website and see a picture of say a 47 chief,or a 36 knucklehead etc.(or a 1980 Suzuki,but that's another subject)
Tom

[fillibuster]

I'm new to this club, but have been in others.
What I want from a club is something that I can't get elsewhere, or on my own. I can jump on my bike and ride out to the Boonies hoping to run into someone on an old bike.
By myself, I can't get a personal tour of a museum, or if there is a motorcycle event and I want to volunteer, or get back stage so to speak, it's easier when it comes from a club.
So accounting for lets say additional $15 dollar chapter dues, a total of $55 is worth it to me, and I get a nice magazine with content suited to my taste.
AS far as Facebook goes, it's not that content rich, so it really is just a doorway to the club. If you want people to come to AMCA events, or chapter events and get to know us, then you need those things on facebook, or it's not a gateway at all.

If I could make a "task-specific" donation to the club it would be for a massive overhaul of the club's library. You are on point when you say that Facebook is a gateway to the club. The library could (should?) be an open book, IMO; open the cover and view it for hours. Find something you want.
The club could make public to all, the topic covers, and make public to all members the entire contents.
The books and the contents are a very small offering, currently. They could be much more.

[kjsisterson]

I'm new to this club, but have been in others.
What I want from a club is something that I can't get elsewhere, or on my own. I can jump on my bike and ride out to the Boonies hoping to run into someone on an old bike.
By myself, I can't get a personal tour of a museum, or if there is a motorcycle event and I want to volunteer, or get back stage so to speak, it's easier when it comes from a club.
So accounting for lets say additional $15 dollar chapter dues, a total of $55 is worth it to me, and I get a nice magazine with content suited to my taste.
AS far as Facebook goes, it's not that content rich, so it really is just a doorway to the club. If you want people to come to AMCA events, or chapter events and get to know us, then you need those things on facebook, or it's not a gateway at all.

[fillibuster]

It's too early to tell. It's like an experiment that undergoes a slow development (depends on whose clock you use).
I don't see any harm, and even if non-members happen to frequent the site and view our favorite stuff for free I don't care. If they are real AMCA material they'll join up and participate. Meantime, Facebook offers exposure, gets our name out, and I'll have to say I've seen stuff on Facebook that kinda ups the ante on cyber enjoyment. Check the "old photos" thread lately?

[46EL]

I have a few questions (about 9) about the AMCA Facebook page? Do you have to be a Club Member to join the Facebook page?
And wasn't the original thought of that whole Facebook thing to try and bring more younger members to the Club?
Has it helped? Has there been an increase in Membership? Or has it resulted in some people being happy they can get
their fill and see a few old motorcycles and event dates on that page? Maybe enough of a fill so why bother joining the Club and paying the 40 bucks
to get another magazine that eventually sits on a shelf?
Does anybody else think that maybe the Facebook Page should have been for Club Members ONLY?
Maybe creating motivation to get others to join the Club to get involved? Just my opinion? Just wondering how others feel? 46EL

[Rubone]

I subscribe to a couple of MC magazines from the UK, "Classic Bike" and "The Classic Motor Cycle", each of which costs more than the AMCA dues. And they are just magazines (the best out there in my opinion) with no other benefits. AMCA membership is a deal. It costs 40 bucks for a small family to eat at a fast food restaurant!

[Shaky Jake]

I'm coming in late, this may have already been discussed, but I was just thinking today what a quality magazine the AMCA puts out. Better than any club I've been in. Id probably still join if the mag wasn't so good, but it's one of the things that justifies the dues.



Kevin


.

[shelbyinparadise]

Shelby, to tackle the first point, No offense taken, but Richard did not have to teach me anything about diplomacy, I learned that the hard way, through 30 years of being in business. I despise political correctness, but diplomacy is a tool of the trade.

In regards to the membership numbers, I do need to explain how the numbers work. Your calculations are basing the number of AMCA members solely on the AMCA Member Number. The member number has absolutely nothing to do with the number of members. This number is arbitrarily assigned by Cornerstone's system when someone joins the AMCA. It is no longer a sequential number as it was in the past. Furthermore, even people who simply REQUEST an AMCA membership application, get assigned an AMCA member number, even if they haven’t joined yet (or ever join).

There are a number of existing AMCA members who join as “new” members on the web site rather than renewing their existing membership. When Cornerstone hears about this happening, they cancel the new number and transfer funds to the old existing membership. This also artificially bumps up the member number.

Again, no one should use the AMCA member number as an indicator of the number of AMCA members.

Hello Keith, again you explained how my rough estimate was wrong, by not smart enough renewing members and those with nothing to do but request from cornerstone an application they may or not use, but I think my numbers are close. You did not dispute my main point, only I was using un reliable data from Cornerstone.

Your discrediting of Bill Wood's reports for the last 3 years to National Board and all Members should not go unchallenged. As Membership Director I have tried to work with Bill Wood and Fred Davis to understand how the system works.

To Quote Bill Wood in Operations Manager Report in Board minutes Oct, 11, 2013 "Bill Wood presented the membership trend report based on two years of information from the new tracking system he instituted. Membership numbers vary each month , but there is a slow growth rate each year of about 1/2% with a total membership of just over 10,000. The tracking system appears to confirm that Cornerstone's record of AMCA membership is accurate and reliable"

Although the above quote was before you came on duty, us mere mortals must rely on the Board Minutes to base our understandings. Now instead of being positive with the 80% number I used before I will use the following Quote from Bill Wood one year later board minutes Oct, 9 2014

"The standard membership reporting system that Cornerstone Registration put in place has allowed us to accurately track membership from month to month and year to year. The reporting for this year shows a growth curve that appears to be related to the ongoing Membership Recruitment Sweepstakes promotion, which will be confirmed as the promotion dies down. Bill states that the AMCA has a high retention rate at 75% to 80%. Membership at the end of September was reported at 10,481"

Using the 2013 number of 10,000 members we retained 7,500 to 8,000 old members while getting between 2,981 and 3,481 new members to achieve todays number of 10,481 as of Oct. 9 2014.

Am I the only one that sees losing 2,000 to 2,500 of our old and new friends each year is more of major importance than the Net Gain of 481 new members, while doomed to repeat the loss of 20% to 25% of the new total? The Cherokee Chapter is proud of our approximately 200 new members in the last 2 years, and struggle to keep them because of non local issues. A National Retention Rate of below 95% is un acceptable for such a narrowly focused group dedicated only to old motorcycles, in my opinion, that is the Goal of the Cherokee Chapter. Shelby www.cherokeeamca.org not as still listed wrong in latest National Magazine

[exeric]

It probably has gone up more that 100% since the last raise in dues. We now have paid positions that we didn't have before. My personal opinion is that the dues are still a good value.

I agree. The dues at $40 are fine. If they go up to $100 next year I'll bitch

[jwl]

Current dues are $30. $20 is for the magazine, leaving $10 to run the organization. When dues are increased in July, $20 will go to run the organization. Did the cost of doing business go up by 100% ?

It probably has gone up more that 100% since the last raise in dues. We now have paid positions that we didn't have before. My personal opinion is that the dues are still a good value.