judging frustration

[Chris Haynes]

The mustang ride was only $2500. too bad I forgot my wallet...

The bomber rider are far less.

[vph-d]

The Collings aircraft visit an airport near here every other year. I always find a way to run over to have a look. The people gawking at the aircraft are of mixed age, but primarily oldsters, with few youngsters.
VPH-D

[T. Cotten]

Cory!

I did not detect any consensus; It seemed like the echo of an empty room to me.

"Planting seeds of thought is often fruitless." ....Hoosed Datwun

....Cotten

[c.o.]

Cotten!

Dang... my recollection may have been through rose colored glasses. I'd have to do some digging but it seems to me that some folks liked the idea. Consensus may have been a strong word.

[T. Cotten]

Cory!

"It don't matter until the whole herd turns to the new water anyway.
T'aint easy with the oldest cows in the lead." [i]....Grampa Kykuraz

....Cotten

[T. Cotten]

Well, Folks,...

We not only have disaffection by the core of vintage enthusiasts, we now have (alleged) outright hostilities among the core of the club.

Problem:
Cronyism/Hostilities.
Solution: Online peer review.

Problem:
Inconsistency between judges and judgings.
Solution: Online peer review.

Problem:
Valuable and authoritative judges are purged for internal 'political' reasons.
Solution: Online peer review.

Problem:
Enthusiasts must travel great distances for judging, at great expense, and considerable time in between.
Solution: Online peer review.

Problem:
The owners often know more than the judges, making it a fool-the-judges game.
Solution: Online peer review.

Problem:
No collective information is saved and available for other enthusiasts to apply: Lost effort and History?
Solution: Online peer review.

Problem:
The 'restoration' rules destroy more History than they preserve. Judging 'trophy' mentality punishes owners for control over their own projects.
Solution: Online peer review.

Problem:
Few new youngbloods.
Solution: Online peer review

The list of problems is endless..

Nevermind.

....Cotten

[Steve Swan]

here's a funny story from this past saturday..... against my better judgement, i brought my my '27 to the local "thunder in the rockies," motorcycle show put on by Thunder Mountain Harley-Davidson dealership. attendees were the voters for best of show; a trike with a wooden beer barrel won the award. beauty is in the eye of the beholder. the '27 had alot of admirers and people flocked to hear it run the 2 times i started the old fellow up. other's walked by with a split 2nd glance. not a venue where i or the old fellow belonged.

[T. Cotten]

If you need another "show" trophy, Steve,...

I've got a bucket of them in the basement!

Folks can all make of the AMCA judging system as they please. But as an 'industry provider' to the masses, one confusion makes for a stumble every time.

Over and over I am asked if a particular model of carburetor will "work" for a particular model of machine, and I am compelled to reply:
Nearly any carburetor can be made to "work" on nearly any machine, but it will not be 'AMCA correct'.
More often than not, I get the response of "This won't be a show machine".

The masses feel that AMCA judging is just a show, and I cannot blame them a bit.

....Cotten
PS: When I used the word 'disaffected', it was the only one I could think of that combined apathy and contempt. The system has failed its mandate.

PPS: Re: 'dark side' reply.. I remember, Kevin. The system is beyond redemption.

PPPS: What happened to Cory?

[vph-d]

I live less than 10 miles from TM H-D, there is little appreciation of vintage and classic bikes at Thunder/Rockies. I haven't attended since the first one...
VPH-D

[T. Cotten]

One draw-back to the Roster model, Folks,...

..(and others to address of course...) is that so many owners are still computer illiterate.
The 'judging' sessions at meets could also become 'rostering' sessions, assisting those who wish to preserve their machine's progress online, along with insights and technical advice. Machines that would be otherwise excluded can be documented for all to enjoy.

Even rostering at meets outside of the AMCA could provide a window into vintage motorcycling that has been far too exclusive.
Many lovers of History have been ignored.

"Judges" could still call themselves "Judges", of course. (Wouldn't want to take away anyones' honorary title.)

Who wants to be a "founder" and start an online committee?
(....crickets...crickets...crickets.... naturally. What does the present judging staff have to lose? They could at least earn back some dignity.)

....Cotten

[Steve Swan]

I live less than 10 miles from TM H-D, there is little appreciation of vintage and classic bikes at Thunder/Rockies. I haven't attended since the first one...
VPH-D

yeah, i figured as much, but the two $500 prizes was my sole motivation. not a good reason to expect to win. i did get 2 awards, best top 10 in pre-48 American and best workmanship. as Daffey Duck says, "Yoiks and awaaayyy!"

[35chief]

here's a funny story from this past saturday..... against my better judgement, i brought my my '27 to the local "thunder in the rockies," motorcycle show put on by Thunder Mountain Harley-Davidson dealership. attendees were the voters for best of show; a trike with a wooden beer barrel won the award. beauty is in the eye of the beholder. the '27 had alot of admirers and people flocked to hear it run the 2 times i started the old fellow up. other's walked by with a split 2nd glance. not a venue where i or the old fellow belonged.

Hey Steve, I saw your '27, awesome. Trike with barrel, not awesome but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I seldom do shows with my bike. I know my Chief is not the correct red, wrong headlight, wrong sidecar springs and on and on and I would never submit for judging at an AMCA meet. It is generally well received because it is quite beautiful, unless I come across a hardcore antique aficionado. They rip on me, tell me about their collections and what and how many old bikes they have. After giving me an ass kicking over how right their bike is compared to mine they leave, feeling better and get in their car, because they never ride their 100 point bikes. Or they get on a bobber, chopped, cut, heavily modified, former classic bike after whipping me over not cad plating my spokes. Because I am not tattooed or look biker like, I am often asked how much stock I sold to buy my bike and after I tell them I have owned the Chief and sidecar 35 years and do most of my own work they ease up. I am happy to say until this winter, I have @ 10 to $12,000 invested in it from very rough condition( overhauling engine and transmission this winter are going to hurt $$). We can be our worst enemies when we make assumptions. So I avoid showing at Classic bike shows, rarely go to standard bike shows but we enjoy bringing mine to cruise nights and car shows, gear heads like me love most anything with wings or wheels and car guys like seeing something different.

[exeric]

35Chief, you do your own work, and that makes you a true enthusiast, and bone-fide biker. I'm not impressed by the name dropping guys that know 'who' to call to get their work done. This hobby has always been about getting your hands dirty, and making mistakes that teach you how to do it right the next time. AMCA judging has been a good thing because it established a line based on current knowledge about the true DNA of our old bikes. That line has been a living thing that has moved forward as more knowledge has been gleaned from the past. There are detractors to this goal, but the carrot on a stick judging (for all it's faults) has invigorated people to research, and dig for the most infinitesimal bits of weird information about everything from lock washers, to inner tubes. I'll probably never put another bike in AMCA judging, but I have been the benefactor their dedication, and pursuit of details. These days, my enjoyment comes from working in my shop, and handling parts that are 100 years old and seeing first hand, how brilliant those pioneer designers, engineers, machinists were.

[Steve Swan]

Hey Steve, I saw your '27, awesome. Trike with barrel, not awesome but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I seldom do shows with my bike. I know my Chief is not the correct red, wrong headlight, wrong sidecar springs and on and on and I would never submit for judging at an AMCA meet. It is generally well received because it is quite beautiful, unless I come across a hardcore antique aficionado. They rip on me, tell me about their collections and what and how many old bikes they have. After giving me an ass kicking over how right their bike is compared to mine they leave, feeling better and get in their car, because they never ride their 100 point bikes. Or they get on a bobber, chopped, cut, heavily modified, former classic bike after whipping me over not cad plating my spokes. Because I am not tattooed or look biker like, I am often asked how much stock I sold to buy my bike and after I tell them I have owned the Chief and sidecar 35 years and do most of my own work they ease up. I am happy to say until this winter, I have @ 10 to $12,000 invested in it from very rough condition( overhauling engine and transmission this winter are going to hurt $$). We can be our worst enemies when we make assumptions. So I avoid showing at Classic bike shows, rarely go to standard bike shows but we enjoy bringing mine to cruise nights and car shows, gear heads like me love most anything with wings or wheels and car guys like seeing something different.

Hey 35chief! thanks for your reply to this old thread! yeah, i just had donald-duck-dollar-signs rolling under my eye lids.... A couple guys told me the old fellow wouldn't have a chance.... i shoulda known better!

[Edd]

Just put a sign on your bike like I have in the past. “100 Point Rider”. If it gets me to where I want to go and back home it scored a 100 Points. Ed