OHV Single

[Chris Haynes]

Today I stumbled into an old timers shop looking for a fork rocker. On the bench he had just torn down this single cylinder OHV Indian. Pardon the crummy cell phone pictures. The number was L 28 101. Is this the first of its breed?

[Chris Haynes]

Can anybody give any information on this 1928(?) OHV single?

[exeric]

I'm just guessing Chris, but wouldn't that be a Indian Prince motor. I thought that was the only OHV single that Indian made; other than race brewed specials. The right side case and head would tell a lot.

[Dkgoz]

I kind of thought it was a Prince motor, too. Then I saw this '27 Indian Prince on eBay http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1927-...item27b0d530eb

One noticable difference is the serial number - there's a boss for the stamped number on the eBay bike.

Dave
AMCA9757

[Dave Minerva]

Chris, My 1926 OHV Prince racer is vin. # ALR106. I believe that the vin # for Princes are AL101 and up for 1926, BL101 and up for 1927, CL101 and up for 1928. All of the factory racers I have seen have a R after the L in the vin number.

[Tommo]

This is one that belongs to a very good friend of mine here in NZ.
Originally imported by Dawber Motors, the Indian dealers here in Palmerston North at the time, it then went to Midland Motors ownership when they purchased Dawber Motors.
Raced as the Midland Special for many years it then was sold by the receiver when Midland's went bankrupt during the depression of the 30's.
Bought at auction by Bill Skilton it sat in his workshop for many years until it was purchased and restored by the late father of the present owner.
Chris the crankcase looks very similar to the one in your photos and I'm lead to believe that the brass timing case cover is a give-away to whether or not it's a genuine racing model or not.
If I'm wrong please don't shoot the messenger as I'm a HD man and know enough about Indians to get myself in serious trouble but am always prepared to learn.
Hope this is of interest.

[inrustwetrust]

Dave is correct on the number system. The numbers on the New Zealand bike that Peter Thompson showed also look correct. The NZ machine's configuration is clearly shown in The Iron Redskin. The Iron Redskin has the most complete written history of the Prince that I have found.
The engine in question is almost definitely Prince. It has the same set up as the OHV racer, as far as stud spacing and most of the spigot locations are identical. The racing cases were narrower and there was no boss for the serial numbers to be stamped on. They made three variations of Prince in 1928. The OHV racer, the flat head version, and the OHV street machine. The OHV machines were ball bearing mains and the flat head was a bronze bushing main. The designation for the OHV street machine was L. I have never seen an OHV street machine and do not know the serial number sequence. The number 28 stamped on the engine in question does not follow the usual practice that Indian used during the period.
The interesting thing about the elusive OHV street Prince is that it is the only pre-war overhead valve street machine that Indian ever offered. The post war model overhead engine was the 149 and 249 series.
Other ways to identify an OHV racing engine is the bronze timing cover, two cam set up on ball bearings and the high mag pedestal with the (I can't remember which) model K or O cover for the mag drive chain. They used the early teens total loss oil pump. The engine also had a Hedstrom style sight glass on the right case to see the oil level.
The Prince was first introduced in 1925 and was a clear knock-off of British machines. It was meant for the overseas market. Thousands were produced, yet few exist today. The big failing points on the flathead machines were the Splitdorf magneto and the pot metal carb on the 26 to 28 models. I have never seen the Splitdorf used on the Prince ever used on any other engine. It is different
in its footprint, height and shaft dimensions. The rotation is also counter-clockwise. As far as I can tell it was unique to Prince. Clear evidence that mag failure was the most common demise of the machine is how many Prince engines you find with no mag or timing cover and gears. The cover has to be taken off to remove the mag. Once the mag was sent out for repairs, it never came back because nobody could fix it. Then the rest got lost too.
1925 serial numbers started at 30Y-001. When they passed 999, they went to 31Y-001. I have seen 33Y numbers, which means they produced over 3,000 Princes in 1925.
1926, as Dave pointed out was AL-001 and up. The racing machines were ALR-001, then BL- for 1927 and CL- for 1928.
The Prince evolved into the Motoplane and the Junior Scout. Most all small displacement Indians share the basic design principle of the Prince. A 741 cylinder will bolt directly on to a Prince engine. 741 and Prince cams are also the same, and most internals were interchangeable, like flywheels . This clearly shows that Indian was using the concept of a running change so they were able to use up inventory and also avoid extensive re-tooling to produce a new model. It also made it possible to keep parts available for the earlier models.

[Chris Haynes]

Here are some pictures of the OHV top end and gear case on this motor.
IMG]http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp209/hd36knuck/2010-04-20164102.jpg[/IMG]

[Chris Haynes]

[inrustwetrust]

That is OHV Prince. What is the width of the cases on the stud flats? What is the bore of the cylinder? On the cylinder head, between the vertical cooling fins opposite the spark plug , do you see the letters B and S? That is the foundry that produced the castings for Indian for many years. It was a company in Providence Rhode Island called Brown and Sharpe. In the last century, the unions decided that they should no longer exist. They got their wish, Brown and Sharpe is now just a small footnote in the history of the industrial revolution.