Indian powerplus transmission dating

[26harleyj]

Hey Everyone,

I am trying to determine the differences for the transmissions used on the Indian Powerplus's. Specifically I am trying to figure out what would be correct for a 1917 model (I need the right one for my little twin Indian). I know the front cover on them has a model number and a letter prefix that I believe designates its year like the engine.

Does anyone have a way to figure out what each year box is meant to look like or what years the letter prefix means?

I know for the beginning of 1920 they had the filler spout bolted onto the back side of the case. I am not 100% when they went to the large cluster gear shaft but always believed that started in late 1918 or 1919. The transmission on my bike has an earlier cover with the small cluster shaft hole but has the 1920 and later case cause its machined for the filler spout. The front cover has an "I" as a prefix before its model number. I thought this "I" was correct for 1917?

Looking forward to hearing what anyone has to say.

Cheers,
Jamie

[painterdale]

Hi, Jamie. I am certainly no expert on these but I do have a 1917 Powerplus. These are the only numbers that I know of on the transmission. Are there more numbers somewhere else under all of the grime? If so, I'll go out and see if I can find them. Hope it helps!
Dale

[painterdale]

OK! I was looking at some pictures I took at Oley yesterday and saw where the "I" should be. Did a little scraping and........there it is!



Dale

[Spacke2speed]

Jamie
On your question about finding the serial numbers on 1917 PP transmission. Start looking for and find out the serial number range on 1916 Power Plus transmissions, which is a one year only transmission. Then the you will know the starting point for the numbers on the 1917 PP transmissions.
While there are two different versions of the ’15 Hedstrom transmission, both are different looking then the PP transmission. The ’16 PP transmission also is visible different then the ’17 and up transmission. The ’16 transmission do not have the shifter interlock on the front side of the transmission, the shifting interlock is on the shifter alongside the gas tank. Inside the ’16 PP transmission is different, as it used ball bearings and races instead of the thrust washers like ’17 and up transmission for the main shaft to output gear thrust.
Hope this helps some
Spacke2speed

[Spacke2speed]

Jamie
Forgot to mention something. You might want to look at “Power Plus or Bust” threads. The last page of his threads show his transmission up close, which is a post-’16 PP transmission type and has an “I” and a number earlier then Painterdale’s number.
Spacke2speed

[panthersteve]

While there are two different versions of the ’15 Hedstrom transmission,

Sorry for the hijack but when I saw this I couldn't help it.

I would love to hear more details on the '15 gearboxes and if possible see pics.

Cheers
Steve

[26harleyj]

Painterdale, thank you for your post. I have the same end cover on my gearbox with the "I" before its number. I will post photos tomorrow of what I have. I believe your transmission to be correct for 1917 unless I can find info to prove otherwise. Thank you for the photos of your transmission. This helps a lot.

Spacke2speed, thank you for your post. Sadly there are not many 1916 Powerplus's which are local to me that I believe to have always been a bike to inspect their transmission. Most of the bike's I have seen here in Australia have been pieced together and have not had the luck to inspect an untouched one yet. I will take a look at the "power plus or bust" thread and inspect the transmission that was used there.
It's hard to trust photo's on the net where they say it is a perfect 1916 when you can see incorrect parts spread around the bike. Would you have a photo of what a correct 1916 transmission looks like? Possibly a number from one?
I will pull my 1915 transmission out and compare the two to see the differences you described.

Steve, I will take some photos of the '15 transmission when I have it out tomorrow and post them to the thread.

[Spacke2speed]

Yes, I understand, about most things not being correct that one comes across on the internet and other places, I see the same thing. I was lucky to have gotten my stuff along ago, most of which was NOS and dusty barn finds, not like most stuff today that has been passed through too many hands.
If I remember right, the 1916 Indian Power Plus literature has a cross section drawing of the ’16 transmission showing the ball thrust setup on the main shaft.
I am sorry to say that I no longer have my big piles of Hedstrom parts or my 1915 Indians (all were victims of unemployment), so a lot of pictures of both types will not be possible. Or have the 1916 transmissions I use to have.
My comment about two different style 1915 Hedstrom transmission is based on parts/bikes I use to have. Please note that I have not done a detailed study through the Indian parts books, as I was more interested in riding my Indians, and not interested in having them judged and shown (sorry AMCA).

While very little of the ’15 transmission parts will work on the later transmissions, here are a few of the outside differences in the 1915 transmission vs the 1917-up Power Plus transmissions that I remember:
On the front of the transmission, the spring loaded shifting fork detent is a different type and is not covered.
On the transmission side cover, the shifter fork rod has a long screw-on cap to cover the shifter fork rod as it sticks out the side cover. I think that the screw-on cap may be different between the two types of ’15 transmissions.
One style ’15 transmission does not have the shifting interlock on the front side of the transmission. Instead, the shifting interlock is a paddle on the shifting ball that locks the shifting lever to the quadrant attached between the frames at the back of the gas tank, thus this paddle to quadrant lock holds the transmission in gear.
The other style ’15 transmission has the shifting interlock on the front side of the transmission similar but not the same as the 1917-up Power Plus transmissions.
Also of note, the clutch on a ’15 is different than ’16 and later clutches – such as chain width, pressure plate and pressure plate mounting screws.

I am sorry as I have pictures of a "other style" '15 transmission, but this Forum format will not let me post them. I have tried a lot of different ways at different times but with no luck. Almost makes me not want to reply and help other members.

Spacke2speed

[26harleyj]

IMAG2135.jpgIMAG2136.jpgIMAG2138.jpg

Here are some older photos I took of my 1915 trans. I cannot easily get to it right now but hasn't changed since these photos were taken. It has the shifting interlock on the front of the end cover.

Spacke2speed, please PM your photos of the other style of '15 trans and I will upload them to the forum.

[26harleyj]

20170502_144342_resized.jpg20170502_144355_resized.jpg20170502_144402_resized.jpg

Ok, here are some photos of the trans out of my '17 little twin which has been pieced together. The end cover is the same as yours Painterdale and has the "I" prefix which I believe to be correct for 1917. Now the case you can see has the machined section for the bolt on oil filler on the back side. I can now see the differences between the cases on my 1915 and this 1920ish case, thank you Spacke2speed.

Painterdale, would you be able to take some photos of the front side of your trans case to see if it has any different bumps or ridges to my 1920ish case?

[Beddo]

I have a '17 Little Twin with 3 speed gearbox - I can check the S/N and get back to you.

regards
Dave

[Tom Wilcock]

1916 transmission 007.jpg1916 transmission 008.jpg1916 transmission 009.jpgHere are some pictures of the transmission for my 1916 Indian. I assume it is original to the bike as it came to me with it.

[painterdale]

Spacke2speed,
I hope that was just frustration speaking. We have all learned from your posts and appreciate you taking the time to share your knowledge!
Thanks, Dale

[painterdale]

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Ok, here are some photos of the trans out of my '17 little twin which has been pieced together. The end cover is the same as yours Painterdale and has the "I" prefix which I believe to be correct for 1917. Now the case you can see has the machined section for the bolt on oil filler on the back side. I can now see the differences between the cases on my 1915 and this 1920ish case, thank you Spacke2speed.

Painterdale, would you be able to take some photos of the front side of your trans case to see if it has any different bumps or ridges to my 1920ish case?

Jamie,
I'm not sure these will help you at all. My transmission is pretty crusty down there. Maybe this weekend I can knock some of that grime off to get a better look.
Dale

[Spacke2speed]

Jamie
As you asked, I tried to PM some '15 transmission pictures to you, but again, this Forum format will not let me and/or I still have not figured this Forum format out. I am not a computer guy. I can send pictures thru regular e-mail. As per Dale's comment of being frustrated, yes, as they say, a pictures is worth a 1000 words, and there is not misunderstanding of words with a pictures.
Spacke2speed