Three Speed for 1914 Hedstrom Indian

[Tom Lovejoy]

Spacke2speed, thanks for sharing this information. Lot's of stuff I had no idea of, I too have a bits of 14 I hope to put on the road again and have much to learn and try to remember.

[Glr101s]

Spacke2speed; Thank you again for sharing all your incredible knowledge! I will be referring back to all your posts as my build progresses. One more question: In an earlier post you discussed gear ratios. I believe the factory solo recommendation is 4:1 overall in third gear. Do you have any specific recommendations from your experience?

Tom; If you would like, please email me your contact info glr101s@aol.com. I'll be glad to share what I run in to as my build progresses, swap parts, contacts, etc. Even if you aren't building right now, we have a common challenge! I plan to keep posting here.

[Spacke2speed]

Note: I got permission to post those pictures of somebody else wanted to see them and if we know how to post them.

As far as my gear ratios that I ran, I am sorry that I do not remember them. I was lucky enough to have different ratio for the three sprockets and just keep playing around with them until I found the combinations that the bike started easy and an overall speed that suited my style of touring.
What I mean by “my style”, is I preferred to ride towards the back of the tour at a slower pace, enjoying the saddle time, and enjoying the scenery as I rode along. Almost a “leave first, and arrive last” pace which also allow me to see the other old bikes going down the road, which was fun to see. I had no issues with being passed or having the trouble truck in my mirror. I did not want to ride up front with the Alpha Pack on the tour.
I remember on an Excelsior I was working on, I changed the motor sprocket one tooth less and it went from very easy starting to very hard to start.
I remember missing guessing on ratios, one time too high, having to use second gear to go up hills, but it was great on the flats. Another time, to low, while it was great going up hills, it was faster coasting down hills them in gear, but I lucked out on that tour as I keep dropping a rear cylinder by fouling its sparkplug so the extra low gearing really help me get up all the hills.
Remember, as far as top speed goes, you have narrow tires, and only have a rear brake to stop you, and they are not the best at their best.

[Tom Lovejoy]

Spacke2speed, I think I can post the pictures and I would much appreciate seeing them. If possible send me a few and I well try posting them. My e mail is Tom_Lovejoy@Hotmail.com, we will see what happens :-)

[Shaky Jake]

Rear Stand
Be careful when putting your Indian on the rear stand. The rear stands has to be riveted together tight. If the rivets are not tight, the stand will be flimsy. A flimsy stand will twist when attempting to put the motorcycle on the rear stand. The rear stand arms should land on swing arm studs but if twisted will miss the studs and over the bike goes. Seen this more than once

Crank Case Drain Valve
The drain valve on all of my early Indian had straight threads. I see a lot of Indians where tapered thread valves have been screwed into the straight thread hole.

Front Fender tip
While it may seem like a little thing, it can be very dangerous. The early fender tips do not have them but the later fender tips have a safety strap across them, which goes through the front leaf spring curl. Without the safety strap, if the fender tip mounts breaks, it will rotate on its braces into the front tire. If this happens, it will lock up the front tire and over the handle bars the rider goes. It has happen on one of the tours years ago. Note that the aftermarket Federal blocks that fit inside the front leaf spring curl have the opening for the fender tip safety strap to go through. On the fender tips, there is a hole on each side for mounting the safety strap. Still I see a lot of the later fender tips with the holes in them, but without the safety strap.
Another safety feature:
On the front leaf spring just in front of the suspension struts is a leaf spring with a small loop rolled into the tip. On both sides of the leaf spring tube, there should be studs sticking out of the tube. These are a safety feature in case the leaf spring curl breaks to keep the front struts from pivoting forward, into the front wheel and lock it up, resulting in the rider going over the handlebars. I have seen a lot of early motorcycles miss the studs sticking out of the tube on the end of the leaf spring.

Missing parts
Over the years, I have seen a lot of items missing on early Indians that should be there such as:
Missing the fiber piece between the clutch lever arm and the curved clutch quadrant. Without it, the two parts rub, metal to metal. They do not slide smoothly, and wear into each other.
Missing the fiber pieces between the gas tank and the frame that use the gas tank mounting straps to hold them in place and to space the tank away from the frame. These are to prevent wearing holes in the gas tank from the frame rubbing on it.
Missing the leather pad between the leaf springs and the frame. Not sure why Indian did it, but they must have did it for a reason.
Missing the spacers and the springed clevis pin with the swivel blade on the end which pins the brake backing arm to the strap around the swing arm frame. This is for easy rear wheel removal due to a flat tire without having to take apart the swing arm strap.
Missing lock nuts on clevis. While in some areas, it is no big thing, but in other areas, real important. Example is on one tour, a Harley was going down a hill and when the brakes were applied at the bottom, no brakes. The Harley and rider finial stopped deep in a field. The cause was no lock nuts on the brake rod to brake clevis which caused the joint to vibrate and the threads to wear enough so that during this hard braking, the brake rod pulled out of the clevis because of the worn away threads, the end result was no brakes.
Missing the special shaped washers on the inside of the fenders where the screws go through the fenders into the fender mounts below the front fork and swing arm. These special washers help keep the fenders from cracking and breaking up around the screw hole.
Missing the high tension insulator tube in the lower center gas tank mount.

Spacke2speed,

In this post (which was loaded with good information) you talked about a couple of fiber pieces that are often missing. I knew about the one on the clutch lever arm, and I ordered some fiber material to make it, but between the gas tank and frame I've seen leather used here in the past. What I've seen is a piece of leather cut into a shape similar to the Chevy bow-tie, with the wide part of the bow-tie located between the frame and gas tank and the mounting strap screws passing through the narrow ends of the bow-tie. Based on your post, it sounds like the correct original material was fiber? Was it shaped like what I described? About how thick was it?

Can you describe the special shaped washers on the inside of the fenders where the screws go through the fenders into the fender mounts below the front fork and swing arm? I'll need to find or fabricate some of these.

Also, can you describe the high tension insulator tube in the lower center gas tank mount? I'm not sure what this is.


Thanks for you help!

Kevin.

[Spacke2speed]

Kevin
Another memory test?
More important is that there should be gas tank to frame spacers. The shape you have described is what I have seen also.
I cannot say that the leather is wrong or that the fiber spacer is correct. Back in the “Old Days” I acquire early Indian parts in a couple of big batches (there was some other make parts). In with one of these batches were one use and one new black fiber like material “crosses”. They were about 1/16 thick. They were the same material and thickness as the black clutch lever arm fiber rub plate. If they were original Indian or after market like the Federal spring blocks, I do not know 100%.
I remember seeing an early unrestored Indian with some of them also. That is what made me think they were correct for Indian.
As far as using leather spacers on the gas tank. The only thing I can think of is the leather spacers on the gas tank mounts would not be able to be tighten solid. Unlike the leather between the leaf spring and frame, which can be tighten tight.

The special inside fender washers are an elongated diamond shape with rounded points, curved and slightly cupped to match the inside of the fenders. I have had them with one and two holes in them.
If you are setup to run the electric taillight, on the other side of the fender from the light mounting bracket, there is a rectangular shaped curved plate with the corners clipped that reinforces the fender under the electric light mount.

The lower center gas tank mount above the carburetor should have a flat loop welded to it. The loop’s open end is down towards the motor. This allows the loop to be opened up slightly to install and closed back together to hold a red hard rubber tube with flanges on both ends to keep it from sliding out. Both of the high tension sparkplug wires go through this red hard rubber tube before the wires dropping down to the sparkplugs.

Hope this helps
Spacke2speed

[Shaky Jake]

Your memory seems pretty dang sharp to me Spacke2speed, and yes this information does help.

My front fender is held on by two bolts that are very close together. Am I understanding correctly that there should be one diamond shaped washer that both bolts pass through? Or are there two separate washers?

Thanks! again,

Kevin

[Spacke2speed]

Kevin
Your front fender should not be held by two bolts.
The front spring is clamped to the front fork by a plate which has two holes in the center of it that are both chamfered and slotted. Two special flathead screws with tabs sticking out opposite sides and are smooth on the top, are used to mount the front fender. The two special screw are set in the front spring plate before it is use to mount the spring, thus after mounting the front spring, trapping the screws, while the tabs in the slots keeping them from turning.
Only one diamond shaped washer is used, it is about two inch by one inch (memory test) and sits crosswise inside the front fender.

[Spacke2speed]

Gordon
Intake value rocker adjusting screws
If you plan on touring your Indian a lot, you might want to safety wiring the intake valve rocker adjusting screws to keep them from turning and falling out while going down the road. Safety wire the adjusting screw by running the wire across the slot in the top and around the head of the rocker. Yes, the locking nuts should prevent that, but still I have handed out a lot of adjusting screw and nuts over the years to other riders who had theirs fall off. I use to always keep Indian spares parts in my tool box, including in my Minneapolis tool box, until I ran out of them. Sometimes the push rod, the intake dome tappet, and the cam follower tappet would fall off. But,,,,,, then again maybe some peoples idea of ”real fun” is walking up and down the road for the last mile hoping to find all the parts that fell off. I have even handed out tappets a couple of times, as it is easier to found the bigger parts.

[Spacke2speed]

Gordon
Thing to keep in mind on your Oil Pump
Issues with the Hedstrom oil pump. Setup your oil pump depending on the type of riding you plan on doing. On the tours, most people set their oil pumps for the higher speeds of open road touring, then when they get into town, their bikes smoke. I set mine up for around town, since I also did a lot of non-tour riding around my area and not wanting to draw extra attention with a smoke screen following me around. The penalty is on the tours, I would have to give it a little extra oil with the hand pump every so often because of the higher speeds of the tours.
Another thing you need to do is every time you get off the bike, check the oil level in the motor side window. I never figured out how or why, but every so often the oil pump would stop pumping oil while going down the road. What I found is somehow air would get into the oil pump. While riding, you will feel the motor start to “tie up” from lack of oil, or you feel like you are heading into a strong headwind but there is not wind, or you feel like you are going uphill but you are riding on flat ground. If so, just give it some oil with the hand pump every so often until the next stop. It is just a matter of removing the bleed screw on the side of the oil pump and let the trapped air out. To be on the safe side, I would let it bleed some more after it starts pouring straight oil out, as a bubble or two seem to always take their time getting out.

[Spacke2speed]

Gordon
Cam timing
When the time comes to rebuild/put back together your Hedstrom motor yourself, be careful of the timing, both the cam and the magneto timing. I have always gone thru my own Hedstrom motors myself. But I have seen three motors that were “professional” rebuilt that had the cam timing off by at least one tooth. The motor still ran, but not very well.
When you look at the design, it is easy to get the timing off. There are three gears on the inside of the right case. The oil pump drive gear, the magneto drive gear, and the cam gear. There are scribed lines in the inside of the motor case. The scribed lines on the gears are aligned with the scribed lines on the inside of the case. Now without being able to see, you have to lower the motor case over the flywheel assembly, keeping the flywheel timing line aligned with the case timing line. The trick is to get all three of the flat faced case gears to mash with the flat faced pinion gear on the flywheel without anything moving off their scribed alignment lines. And when the case does finial drop in place, are you 100% sure, with no if, ands, or buts that they did not move off those scribed alignment marks. I always made a mark with a felt marker on the outside (on masking tape) to verify that nothing misaligned on the inside during assembly. That way I know for sure. Because of the way Indian does the timing on the Hedstrom motors and all these timing issues, you cans see why that is very important that the flywheel serial numbers match the motor case serial numbers.