Junior Scout front end woes

[JOHN STEELE]

Good point Harry.
I counted the number of coils on Gary's spring and compared to mine and they appear the same but that doesn't mean his is not stronger.
I hope he gets this sorted out.
John

[gboblebeef]

Good point on the spring, but I am not sure a lighter weight spring would do anything but compress easier. I don't see how a heavier spring would change the correct location. The spring is in contact as it sits, and I can just make all the links bolt up. when I do, it aggravates the contact. The spring is fully seated top and bottom on the rotational mounts. The bearing races and balls are in fine condition, and fully seated top and bottom. I do still have a ball bearing lower bearing. The lower tree is oriented with the friction damper locating pin on the right hand side. The bits show no damage other than the heavy rust you can see in the pictures. When I bought this bike, the front was off, but the PO is a reputable business man, in a national motorcycle aftermarket parts company, that said he had removed it from the bike, blasted and primed it. The front wheel however is from a later junior scout. I removed the engine and all the holes and plates were normal. No tweaks or weird angles. No signs of crash damage. The tanks were items I bought on ebay, they are damaged, but clearly do not count in this equation. The bars that were supposed to be original are not perfect, but are not anywhere near damaged enough to indicate more than a tip over in the barn.
Did other Indian models of the period share a similar fork and spring? IO think the early Prince and the Motoplane had the same bits, but were the same bits if you know what I mean. My parts book has it as unique to the Junior. Just some rambling info and thoughts. I look forward to your thoughts and thank you for all the good info, pictures, and questions.
Best regards, Gary G

[pisten-bully]

I don't see how a heavier spring would change the correct location. The spring is in contact as it sits, and I can just make all the links bolt up. when I do, it aggravates the contact.

Gary, thinking of the geometry here, when weight goes on the front end (adding the engine and then later hitting a bump in the road) then the links move or swing to a more horizontal position (and compress the spring). The bottom links in a more horizontal position will move the coil spring away from the frame neck, right? You may have the correct spring even, but you may need to compress it some to get the top links to line up, and without any weight on the front end the coil is going to be close or even contact the neck. Can't tell from John's picture, but maybe he can confirm that his coil is right up against the neck, too, when there's no load on the front?

[gboblebeef]

Harry,
I can not disagree with the thought process, or the geometry, but have to doubt that the factory would allow the steering to bind when the spring contacts the neck if the front wheel is not on the ground. In this case, it is not just contact, it gets tight and restrictive when done up. With the roads and trails of the day it would be more than likely to loft the front a bit on a bump. Granted you wouldn't be riding any wheelies on this little powerhouse.
The picture of John's bike seems to show about a 1/4" or so. It also looks to be in the same state of assembly, albeit painted and beautiful. I am still working on complete before I even think of pretty. :-)
For tonight the mystery lives on.
Cheers, G

[JOHN STEELE]

Here is a photo of the front end with the weight of the frame attached. Notice the space between the spring and top and bottom of the neck.



What is the diameter of the spring coils? The coils on my spring measure 1/4 inch diameter.
The reason I asked about the condition of the top and bottom bearing and races, was the top bearing had failed on mine and the result was the spring made contact with the neck. I believe there are 21 bearings measuring 1/4 inch each.
I got the tapered bottom bearing from Greer's.
There is almost 1/2 inch clearance, at the bottom, between the spring and the neck, and 1/2 inch clearance between the spring and the head light casting on mine.
It is difficult to tell from the pictures but your spring looks a bit larger in diameter than mine. I now wish I had measured it when things were disassembled.
Don't give up! We will figure this out one way or another!
The joys of old machines!
John

[gboblebeef]

John,
You might have found the anomaly. The wire diameter on my front spring is .344" It was a true bugger to install on the lower twist casting. Had it been painted, the paint would be destroyed. Looks like It might be a simple as the spring. Now, who has a spring to either sell or loan me. I would prefer to buy one as it does appear that I need one. Also, any ideas on how this heavy duty spring came into play? Was there a similar shaped spring on a larger bike?
Thanks and Cheers! GG

[gboblebeef]

Looks like my spring was the culprit in this case. I was able to source a correct one from a gent in Florida. Popped it in and all is proper in relation to clearance and travel. Thanks to everyone for offering up the advice, information, and pictures. I will try and post some pictures soon. I got excited and took it apart again!
Cheers and Thanks, GG