Gel Battery For My '53 Chief

[kenpell]

Can anybody out there recommend a good, high amp, 6 volt gel battery for a 1953 Chief that has the approximate dimensions of the original?

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Ken

[INLINE4NUT]

ken try your local interstate battery dealership everytime Ive had a need they have helped and with all the batteries rite in front of you you cannt go wrong

[kenpell]

Thanks for the lead! I'll check 'em out and see what they have!!

[Perry Ruiter]

In my opinion if you're running a three brush generator a gel cell isn't a suitable battery and you should use a traditional lead acid battery. Gel cells require a well regulated charging environment. A three brush generator doesn't provide that (ever wonder why the bulbs are rated 6-8 volts). If you've converted to a two brush generator with a regulator then a gel should be OK since the generator's output is much better controlled. A gel with a three brush is a ticking time bomb and the battery will fail on you. When depends on how much you ride and where your third brush is positioned.

Note - the later Indian generators with the two charge "regulator" are still a three brush generator (and that's not a real regulator) ... Perry

[Jack K]

Perry is absolutely correct. The glass mat sealed batteries will fail if you try to run them without amp control. I've blown two of them. Sounds like a blown tire when they go. The first one blew on my 47 Chief. At the time it blew, I was running the lights, passing lights and all to keep the amp output down. When the battery gave up, it popped the lights and burnt the points in half and got the condenser. With no battery to control voltage the generator became a welder. This occurred about 150 miles from home on a very hot day.
The second battery blew on my 48 Chief under pretty much the same circumstances but without the loss of bulbs or ignition parts.
At least the 48 had the voltage under control.

[Coolbreeze]

Apparently, the VW Bosch 6 volt generator on my '48 Chief is kind to my gel cell. I use a 6 volt 20 amp-hour gel cell made by CSD (Cell Source Distributor) it is 6 1/8 L, 3 1/4 W, and 5 H. It has a release valve which, I suppose, prevents it from popping if charged at a high rate. It has a current draw design of 6 amps; so, I'm guessing that it can be charged at the same rate. It fits snuggly in a fibreglas shell and has caused no problems.

[chiefj48]

i just put a 14amp gel in my 440, and after 2hrs it was going dead. i have a seal beam headlite, and i'm not sure if i had the high beam on, so i have to charge the battery, and check things out tomorrow.

[PRG]

Howdy Ken

As mentioned, with your generator converted to 2 brush and electronic regulator fitted (PODtronics or similar), you're in a position to use a gel or agm - the latter having the highest energy density and long term storage capability - which do not like large amperage charge rate variations. Cutouts are out of the equation and two charge mechanical regulators are just that - two charge - and do not duty cycle with the speed and accuracy of electronic contol leading to greater amperage amplitude ranges in operation.

Unlike Fours which cradle these batteries with a band, Chiefs rely on clamping pressure with a hard metal frog, likely applying more vibration via the v-twin source as well. General purpose AGM's are not as robust as their m/c oriented equivalents but come in far greater size variations for you to tailor your application but should be fitted in a shell for insurance. As a general purpose battery, Powersonics have a very good reputation when used for m/c's but care must be taken. The Powersonic PS-6200 will fit laying on its side in a hollowed out/rubber case battery shell. For extra insurance, their 36 amp unit will fit upright in one of the old fiberglass coffin shells if the inside is hollowed further. Make sure you get one with standard terminals and not the more delicate push-on spade connectors.

Instead of relying on clamping pressure alone to secure your battery - and this might not be a bad idea even if running an old India made rubber wet cell - to achieve better "traction" and thus require less clamping pressure and vibration transfer, take an old innner tube, cutout strips and glue them to the underside of your frog. It'll enable you to secure the battery with less deforming pressure.

Joe: a 14amp in a battery ignition 440, three brush generator and an old 6V sealed beam is marginal at best as, unlike Chiefs, these generators only turn at crankshaft speed and that GE 3044 can pull 4.5amps on low beam...if I recall. As a city dweller, I had to 2 brush/electronic reg, install a Marc Mishon's low amp halogen and make a concealed headlight-only switch for daytime riding to find a happy medium and that was even with a 20 amp reserve. With the same setup and a sealed beam on the 441, I revert to a spotlight during the day and keep from lingering to long on idle at night.

[chiefj48]

hey pete,

i checked out the system today, and found i was running on high beam, thus draining the battery. i don't have the high output gen, and with the lite on low beam everything seems fine. i rode the bike today for about three hours without the headlite on, and didn't have any problems. as long as the revs are up the gen seams to keep up with the draw of running with the lite on. i'm thinking of putting a motolamp back on the bike, and see if it has less of a draw. i also like your idea of running a spot lite for daytime use.

joe

[PRG]

...feast or famine

Howdy Joe,

Re-fitting a Motolamp will enable you to discreetly install Marc Michon's low amp draw halogen bulb, still look stock and have better lighting, this arrangement's worked perfectly on my 440 along with a halogen tailight. Part of the motivation to fit spots on the 441 was knowing that GE3044 was stock fitment and would overwhelm a battery ignition Four in city/urban riding. Which, by the way, speaking of high output gen's., if you convert your generator to two brush/electronic reg., the efficiency gained will improve output dramatically - I would be reluctant to run a gel without one, and definitely not an agm.

Now, one thing never mentioned in our exhaustive discussion of electronic reg conversions/gel/agm batteries over at the VI here is the one shortcoming of this conversion. It does not accomodate the feast or famine principal used by our forfathers to keep those thankfully flexible LA batteries charged wherein more amps were captured from the less frequent positive charging cycles offered by a generator when compared to an alternator in a typical drive cycle.

The electronic reg. designer's assume that your charging device (alternator) will balance load at low rpm for which our generators do not - especially on a battery ignition Four. These regulators meter out a charge rate just above load to a capacitor (gel/agm) designed to be preferably almost trickle charged on the assumption you have more positive charge situations in that typical drive cycle from which to capture this throttled-back output.

We do not, so whereas a 14amp LA battery on the receiving end of a cutout/mech reg would be adequate for our load, I'd be reluctant to have less than a 20amp gel/agm if a m/c designed electronic reg was controlling charge rate.

Though not an issue with the 348, will be the first to say, after the elec reg conversions, it took quite a while to get used to seeing that ammeter just a little over zero while underway on the other machines...had grown accustomed to the comforting sight of the needle halfway up the scale accompanied by the pleasant aroma of boiling battery acid wafting in the air.

[Kiwi Mike]

gel battery

Initially many Indian riders were excited about gel batteries however over time that soon disappeared with all ending up in failures. After discusssing it with some of the battery manufacturers they all concluded that the best battery for Indian/Autolite charging systems was a lead acid type battery. However Gel cels may work with Cycle Electric charging systems but that would be a question for CE.
Mike Tomas
Kiwi Indian MotorCycle Co

[exeric]

The next logical question; Is there a good lead acid battery available? I currently have an Indian (as in, from India) battery and it's a destructive piece of junk. The tar on top is cracked and acid leaks profusly. I've tried sealing it with silicone and that doesn't work. My neighbor suggested tar which probably will work. I never would have thought of that, DUUUHHH. Suggestions would be appreciated as I will need one very soon.

[Chris Haynes]

On thing I have found with the "Indian" batteries is that if you use automotive grade acid in them they don't put out enough juice. I use aircraft grade acid and they work much better.

[INLINE4NUT]

We have had this discussion a few times before here and I can only relate to my experiences with my Fours and three chiefs I use 6volt yusa batteries that fit into the "fake battery boxes " those batteries have given me great service although I can not say I ride the snot out of these machines,but they are used for long and short rides nite and day, all summer long I have used a close battery gel with no problems,but not for a prolonged time, so im no expert by any means.

[exeric]

Inline, do you have a model # for that Yusa battery ? I have an Indian battery shell and would like to go that route.