Hydraulic Chief Values

[Joe G]

Hello Everyone.

I have had a 47 Chief for years and I love the bike. An older gentleman (I went to high school with his son in the early eighties) is going to offer me his 52 Chief - he would like to see it go to me because he knows how much I love them. The problem is I don't know what the offer will be. I think the bike is relatively original and in need of a restoration - heck it might even be in boxes, I've never seen it. I checked Haggerty website, and it looks like a 52 values at about 20% higher than a 47. I feel like I know 47 prices pretty well but I don't have a lot of money to spend on the 52 and then bring it back to life. So, the question is do 50-53 Chiefs have premium value over 46-48s? I know they are much more rare but I don't know if they are more desirable. Thanks. Joe

[T. Cotten]

Short answer, Joe,...

Yep, Yep, and Yep.

If its all together, its unaffordable, and probably has to come apart anyway.

And if its a basket, its even more to put it all together.

But at least you have one to go by... .. . .

....Cotten

[exeric]

I have not owned a 50-53 Chief, but many Indian riders have told me that late vintage Indian Chiefs are the Indians to have for long rides, comfort, and more power. I also recall a serious Indian collector state that the '52 Chief is the one to have because of scarcity. He opined that more than a few '52s were 'faked' into '53s because big money' had followed the 'last year' model. As for value; even in boxes, a complete bike, (and I mean complete) is worth near top dollar. By complete I mean missing very little, and genuine. I recently put together a '41 Sport Scout and even though I thought it was a 95% bike, it wasn't, and closer to a 80% bike. That 20% missing was the hard to find, and expensive stuff that turned it into a time consuming, and frustrating project that I wouldn't do again. I've been down that road many times, (which used to be fun) but I'm getting too old to haunt swap meets, and harass friends for missing parts. Do your homework and learn about the '50-'53 Chiefs to know what is in the pile, (or whole bike) that you're looking at. Late Chiefs were rare in their day so it is imperative to find one that is close to correct, and complete. I hope I don't sound condescending, as I really hope that bike is a good buy, and project for you, Joe.

[bikerdds]

52-52 chiefs are excellent riding. My 52 has it all over my rigids for longer rides.
52-53 uses many of the same repop parts as 47 era. However, fenders and tanks are another story. Tanks I don’t think ever repopped. The bench seat is horrible however. Use a saddle type. You need the seat tee casting on your frame for this. Carb M352 and hard to find( there are no legitimate M353 carbs according to most Indian sources). Avoid Amal equipped bikes. No real parts or rebuild kits for them.
They are kind of an orphan in the Amal world.
52 and four digit 53 have raised N head bolts. Damn hard to find;
worse yet, Captains wheel head bolts five digit 53. Very rare.
52-53 higher compression. You can really tell when doing priming kicks.
52 maybe 500 built.
Four digit 53 800.
Five digit 53 300.
Number build depending on source which seems to vary.
All tough to find but great riding.
You definitely will have more in one of these bikes.

[T. Cotten]

...Carb M352 and hard to find...

Should I get one ready for Davenport, Marty?

...Cotten

[Skirted]

As you can see Joe there are many variables. If you can get more info and maybe even pics and check numbers we can help narrow it down. Personally I'll take a 46-48 any day. To me the aesthetics of the girder trump the hydraulic front and a harder to kick 80 cu engine. But hey, for collector value I surely wouldn't pass on a correct 52 if 4-5k under market value.

[Joe G]

As you can see Joe there are many variables. If you can get more info and maybe even pics and check numbers we can help narrow it down. Personally I'll take a 46-48 any day. To me the aesthetics of the girder trump the hydraulic front and a harder to kick 80 cu engine. But hey, for collector value I surely wouldn't pass on a correct 52 if 4-5k under market value.

I agree on the best-looking Chiefs are 46-48. 1938 is pretty darn cool too.

[Joe G]

I got an update today. I talked to the (very kind) seller a few hours ago. He said the bike is a 53 that was bobbed by the previous owner. A 48 front end was added, and the fenders were bobbed (or maybe it really is the shortened fender of the 52-53). He is 87 now and he realizes there is no way he is going to do anything with it. He has replacement fenders that go with it (my guess is mid 90's Iron horse Corral but that's only a guess). I do not know about headlight, fender lamp, or speedometer. He said he was collecting parts for it over the years and has a telescopic front end, He also said that he has the foundation for a 1945 chief - the frame and the front end. He could not give me a price, he said I knew the most about values and he would like me to come and see it (I am 10 hours away). He said he would give me a really good deal. I'm thinking that when I head north for Wauseon (Next month and I am in SE Tennessee) I do an excursion (another 2 hours) north to see the stuff. Joe

[PRG]

Howdy sir,

Aside from value, from a riding perspective a girder front end (especially a 346 with its more relaxed rake) is a more refined riding experience what with well developed Monroe shock absorber and more compliant and durable suspension articulation. Me thinks telescopics were a quickly dispatched desperate response to HD’s Hydra Glide. The machine sits higher in front (thus the change in 53 to a 4.50 x 16) and dampening is only noticeable on compression, rebound not so much and have worked on a few on the bench where one leg was noticeable stiffer than the other. Many 1950’s were fitted with Bonnie cams and to me is the one to have. No, they don’t have the longer kicker of a 53 but once started are a delight with a Torque Evenor, I won’t own a Chief without that or a Southern Products PowerFlow. It was obvious with the 52-53’s that Indian was out of capital, it’s in the details, they lack the more elaborate horn mounts, front brake arm, rear exhaust hanger, instruments, etc of a 346. If this one is not a 5 digit you’ll likely be debating its status as a 53 at every Indian gathering going forward. I wanted the benefits of an 80 inch without the numbing discussions so when I built my hotrod 348 in 1996 I took the entire contents of my CS6906 and installed them in my matching number 348 motor for a delightful ride ever since.

[exeric]

You are always enlightening, Peter. Thanks for taking the time to respond in detail about the Indian stuff you know a lot about. . . Now, if you only had a Sport Scout.

[PRG]

Howdy Eric,

Well thank u sir. Sports Scouts. Who can possibly forget the arrival of Elmer and Pete Bike Week in 94 during the hey day of Indian what with Buzz’s heavy coverage/promotion and publishing of Indian Motorcycle Illustrated. Elmer, a prolific restorer of top notch judgeable machines (see his spectacular 38 Four during that time) had done both of these and they rolled into the Infield at the track on Monday for the AHRMA races with these looking like glinting jewelry. If you’re a fan of the lines of skirted fenders it gets no better than this era. I vaguely recall the distance from fender light to fender tip on 41-42’s is slightly longer and for those who can’t get enough expansive decorative sheet metal this was the year, but unfortunately for me at the time, a gym rat, at 6’5” and 260lbs and riding nearly 10k miles a year, I couldn’t get out of my own way on flat terrain with my buds aboard a friend’s 41 SS, let alone any hills at speed. Later that year I bought my 441 and restored it by 2007 (a painful story for another day) and now had a more capable conveyance for carrying that swoopy fender in the wind.

[tfburke3]

lots of good info on the Areodraulic forksSomething to be considered is that if you buy one ,hope you get one that is not worn out.
Tubes worn at leg top may need replacing.Anyone have a source?
The steel lower tube bushing rides in the steel bore of the lower leg.Repairing this is not easy and left loose you have a wobbly fork.
As far as the hydraulics,they seem pretty crude to me.No seals just a steel plunger in the steel metering tube ,which even when fitted as tight as possible but allowing free movement seems to have little effect.
I was lucky that my tubes,cadmium plated,had little wear and with new upper leg bushings,seals,and a metering tube plunger weld build up and machining,I have a nice riding front end.
Now take a 46-48,Usually fitting some new bushings and shafts,possibly a new shock,or replacement lower tree,all available reproduction, and its a relatively easy restore.
Tom

[exeric]

I remember those Scouts very well, Peter. I took a lot of pictures of them for a friend who was just starting a '42 Scout, never thinking I would eventually get a '41 SS. The '42 changed hands and went to another friend who took it the rest of the way, and did a beautiful job.

[Joe G]

I made it up to Michigan today to see the 1953 Chief. It was a mixed bag to be sure (pics to follow). It took me a while to piece together what he had, some good, some not so good.

I think what he bought some 25 years ago was a mildly customized 48 Chief with a 1953 or 1952 engine. It was a high four digit. He had spent years collecting what he thought he needed for a 52/53 including a very nice pair of hydraulic forks (cad plating still present), the trees, and a fantastic set of 52/53 tanks. A 52/52 speedometer (I believe it’s a 90’s repop from Kiwi. A set of repop (Iron Horse Coral I believe) fenders, chain guard, and 52/53 engine cover.

He also had a great looking 1945 frame and complete leaf spring front end and handlebars. A set of repop tanks (looked excellent) and another set of repop skirted fenders. I think I counted three wheels, and a really sharp set of saddlebags and chumee seat probably done by Heathers Leathers (very flashy). Also there was what looked like a NOS left hand case with the serial number boss blank.

my first thought is to build a rider out of the 1945 frame and front end. I could put the 52/53 engine in it and use the repop tanks. I could sell what I don’t use including the hydraulic front end, the 48 girder from end, the 48 frame, and the 52/53 tanks, the extra set of skirted fenders, and a few more things to offset the cost of the pile

Joe

[exeric]

Good plan, Joe. The days of finding unmolested antique motorcycles is all but over, but that doesn't mean there isn't a fun project in some of these mis-matched piles of parts. I had a 1940 Chief so I love that era, and think the parts you described would make a great looking rider. I hope it all works out for you.