1932 Chief - Magneto/Generator/cut out relay - totally confused

[bdawson]

Hello everyone. On my last post, I had asked for some info on a wiring diagram for a 32 chief, and you guys came thru pointing me in the correct direction. I am at a loss as to what to do after some detective work this weekend. Question #1: The '32 Chief wiring diagram only has 1 wire going to the generator....but my current setup has 3....1 to the side of the generator and two more on top going to the cut-out relay. Not sure why that is, so I read the tag on the generator and I have an Autolite GAS - 4104. (should be a GAS 4102) Apparently that is for a '32 Four or 33/34 Chief (amongst others), but not for a '32 Chief. So I guess I have a completely wrong generator. So what should I do? I'm trying to make this bike as accurate as I can, but the wrong generator seems like a big deal to me. Should I try and source a GAS 4102 generator or is it a simple process to utilize the GAS 4104? See Pic Question #2: I am trying to do as much research on this '32 Chief as I can, reading all of the books I have, but I am still confused as to the setup that I have with the Magneto. Some pictures of '32 Chiefs I see a setup on the front of the crankcase where the circuit breaker is mounted and then a coil is mounted to the top of that. see pic. And in other pictures, I see a magneto mounted in that same place (which is my setup) for a '32. see Pic. In both cases, there is a battery mounted in front of the rear fender in most all of the pics I have found. My engine number has a "B" after it, but has a Mag. So did my bike come with a battery and a Mag or did it come with a battery and a circuit breaker with a coil on top of it? Question #3: Just curious if anyone has any thoughts as to what I should do to make this accurate and it be able to work correctly. Find a different Generator? Find a circuit break/coil setup and ditch the Magneto? Sorry this got long....appreciate any help on any of the questions. Brent

[RichO]

Brent, They only made a total of about 800 units in 1932 because of the depression They are the rarest of the rare. I don't know what stampings would I.D. it as a battery or magneto unit from the factory but someone could have converted it later. I do know that the timer.is a one year only unit and rare as hens teeth. There is a person who would know that has a shop east of Keene, N.H. and south of the border into Mass. He only works on 1930 to 1935 Indians mostly. He helped my friend with his 1931. I visited his shop on a national road run once. Some one on the forum can provide info on him as I have seen him mentioned before. Bob Stark used to have a restored CHP model 1932 and my friend in Galt has one complete but in pieces. Good luck.

[PaulCDF]

Brent;

"Engine number suffixes
“A letter may be stamped after the engine number (but off to right of boss itself, i.e. on crankcase): these letters are:-
A is for aluminum pistons which were optional over std cast iron pistons in scout 45″in 1928 see note 5
B is for Battery ignition (distributor). (post 1933, see below note) …BUT
B was also used (briefly) to denote blackout lighting fitted by the factory on mil. cycles during WWII. see note 6
B also designated aluminum piston and/or special clearances for performance and/or sustained speeds on pre ’28”.
B also designated aluminum piston, chief carb (DLX81?), chief valve springs and chief inlet nipples/manifold used on
special factory 101 Scouts.
BM is for Bonneville Motor.
BY is for Battery (Distributor) ignition on ‘Y‘ motors, i.e.. Y manifolds, trench heads (Ricardo) etc – mostly mid 30’s models.
M is for Magneto ignition.
MY is for Magneto ignition on ‘Y‘ motors, – rare, mostly mid thirties models."


Source:
https://www.starklite.com/indian-mot...an-motorcycle/

There was also a discussion on the Indian forum about differences in cases and kickers magnetos v battery but these were bikes from 40s

https://forum.antiquemotorcycle.org/...ase#post135119

[gharper]

Brent, The GAS 4102 generator has a tapered shaft and turns CCW. It is spec'd for a sport Scout and won't work for your chief. I'm pretty sure you should have a GAS 4104, which has a straight shaft and turns CW, correct for 32-35 Chief, Standard Scout and the 4 cylinder. . I'm not at home to get my Autolite info but here is a link to my web site with some application info, more pages there than just this one: http://www.splitdorfreg.com/Autolite...tor_Apps-1.htm
and another one: http://www.splitdorfreg.com/Autolite..._Shot155-1.htm

There has obviously been modifications done to your generator and cutout. To be correct, there is 1 wire coming out of the generator connecting to the cutout on the underside, barely visible. Then 1 wire from the cutout up to the ammeter, that's all! Looks like someone added an aftermarket cutout with external generator connections and an additional wire from the generator going god knows where to some kind of a regulator and back perhaps. It should be looked into and straightened out! I'm not doing generator work any longer and do not have the electronic regulators for Autolite any longer. Indian Frank (Vandevelde) could set you up and straighten things out: indianfrank@yahoo.com Unless a 32 timer and coil drops in your lap, don't even think about trying to switch over from the mag! If built correctly, the mag will be bullet proof!

Paul CDF, I believe BM stands for Bonneville Magneto, as all Bonneville motors were magneto ignition. I have a B stamped on my 31 Chief, so presumably special pistons and or clearances or balance I suspect. Indeed, it is now certainly fitted with all that inside, and more "special" stuff.....

[bdawson]

Thanks guys, it would appear as though I am getting closer to an answer. I am attaching a picture from the "indian service shots" #151. Gene....you attached a link above (service shot 151) that shows the Autolite Generators starting from 1935 which is super helpful. I found the attached picture on the web that shows 1931 thru 1934 autolite generator info that appears to be added to the #151 Indian service shots document. You can see my confusion as the attached document refers to the '32 Chief as having an Autolite 4102.....and '33 thru '35 Chief is Autolite 4104. Thanks very much for everyone's help here. Gene....when you get back home and you have a spare 5 minutes, could you look at your autolite info and see if you can say for certain if I should have a 4102 or a 4104 for a '32 Chief? By the way, I had no idea that you did generator work in the past, so thx for all of your input. I will definitely reach out to Frank Vandevelde.

[bdawson]

Just a quick follow up after discussion with Indian Frank via email. He stated that the generator for a '32 Chief should spin counter clockwise, which is what mine does when I push down on the kick starter pedal. Since my 4104 spins CCW, maybe that means someone messed with the internals to make it rotate opposite of what is intended to make it work for my setup? Anyway....still more puzzles to solve. Hopefully I can send it in to Frank to get it sorted. If anyone has any clarifications or more insight, please chime in.

[gharper]

Brent, I'm totally confused now! I don't have a 32 chief, or any belt driven chief generator setups for that matter! For the life of me, I Can't figure out why the 32 only would turn CCW! If it does, then a 3102 would be correct. If it turns CW, then 4104 is what you need.

I think perhaps the chart you posted above is incorrect for 33 Chief. Thinking through it, the 32 and 33 Chief had the same primary drive gear and generator pulley drive system as the 101, which turned CCW. In 34 I believe Indian went to primary chain drive on the Chief and Standard Scout. That setup eliminated one gear in the train, so the generator would turn CW starting in 34 and all the way through 53 on the Chief.

[bdawson]

Hey Gene....Frank told me that my generator was '40s Scout vintage, so I don't have a 4102 or a 4104....I have some frankenstein with an aftermarket cutout setup and wires going in all directions. someone took the name plate off of it, and replaced it with a 4104. I took the generator off the bike and donated it to Frank, and he is going to provide me with a correct '32 Chief generator. At this point, I'm not sure which way a correct '32 Chief generator should rotate except Indian Frank thinks it should rotate CCW. Thanks for everyone's input.

[tfburke3]

Just a thought,but if you have not already you may want to consider having Frank convert the generator he provides to 12v with a electronic regulator.
He converted my 50 chief and it wasnt much more than a 6v rebuild with regulator..
I pretty much sent him the worst generator/parts I had and it came back looking new.
Lots more battery options.
Tom

[PaulCDF]

Okay when we are discussing CW v CCW rotation we are discussing MAGNETOs rotation not Generators rotation right??

[gharper]

Paul, could be either....

Both have different rotations for different applications. In Brent's case, the magneto turns CW, driven by the engine timing gears. 1932 was the first year the Chief had a belt driven generator. 32 and 33 used the same gear drive arrangement off of the helical gear clutch basket as 101 Scout, so indeed the generator should turn CCW. In 1934, the Chief (and std Scout) both got a chain drive primary and the drive for the generator pulley had one less gear in it, so 34 and up Chief generators were CW rotation.

Rotation of a generator or a magneto is ALWAYS referenced when looking at the drive end of the unit, at the shaft. For those of you that grew up with a digital clock, well, I guess you're screwed!

[PaulCDF]

THANKs Harper!