Parking/Storage/Maintenance Clutch Postition.

[PaulCDF]

I was following a thread in the Panhead forum about riding and operating foot clutch and hand shifting.
My question is about winter or "long term" storage, or perhaps just good maintenance practice.
On my 46 Chief at the end of a ride, or when putting up for the winter: I put the transmission in
neutral and leave the "toe-down"//clutch disengaged. Mainly because then I physically roll the bike
into the garage or shed.
But I am thinking; clutch disengaged//"toe-down" compresses the clutch pack and its
springs whereas "toe-up//clutch engaged let the springs lengthen or "relax" pressing the clutch pack
against the pressure plate and clutch hub. So I would like to know what best practice would be?

[T. Cotten]

Relaxed, Paul,...

But I must ask why you must disengage the clutch to roll it when its in neutral.

.....Cotten

[PRG]

Howdy sir,

Absolutely left engaged as sintered bronze and Kevlar linings are not prone to compression welding themselves together and even if (the unlikely event) retaining the original or early retro it doesn’t take much rocking back and forth on a Chief to free them after a long sit…..a Four is another matter.

On a related topic that I’ve covered previously when Chief clutches come up. They are over sprung for solo use as this setup is designed to accommodated the extremely heavy side cars of the era without any change to the machine. I run only 12 springs on my 80 inch hotrod. 348 and 8 springs on a stock 346 with Southern Products compensator sprocket.

[ChiefTwoKicks]

Michel Breeding once told me leaving a Chief with the clutch dis-engaged was a cardinal sin. He told me I deserved to be severely berated for an unforgivable misguided assumption that my clutch is bulletproof. Those little springs have a memory of their own. Mike is a soft spoken sort of guy. He said those things with a bit of sage wisdom in the tone of his voice.
I've also been called out by others about the same comments over the years. Comments like "it's an Indian, not a Harley" and other offhand remarks, usually meant to be a reminder when you dismount and forget to put the heel plate down flat against the footboard.

For Peter- is there any downside to running fewer springs ?

[Skirted]

I went to 12 springs a few years ago per Peters suggestion which made sense to me. Ride 2-up often in mountains. Never a hint of slippage.
Beating dead horse....yes indeed, always leave engaged not just for long storage but even for short stops.

[PaulCDF]

Thank You Gentlemen, That is what I will do: Heel down/springs relaxed. I looked in the manual but maybe I missed it.

For Cotten: "why you must disengage the clutch to roll it when its in neutral."

Because I am old and need all the advantages I can get.

[jim wagnon]

Great question with thoughtful replies. I will follow everyone’s advice also.

[T. Cotten]

Thank You Gentlemen, That is what I will do: Heel down/springs relaxed. I looked in the manual but maybe I missed it.

For Cotten: "why you must disengage the clutch to roll it when its in neutral."

Because I am old and need all the advantages I can get.

Gosh, Paul,..

Somethings' dragging inside, if disengaging makes any difference at all.

.....Cotten

[pisten-bully]

I'll agree with my $.02, store and park with clutch engaged.

And I don't understand the reduced spring philosophy (talk about thread drift ). I've got all springs installed and I don't find it to be a problem. Never seen a torque curve on these engines, but I can (maybe you can too with fewer springs) run up pretty much any hill without downshifting and there's never any clutch slip, and I don't find the clutch action difficult in any way, shape, or form with a full spring set. But that's just me!

[T. Cotten]

The only reason to reduce spring pressure, Folks,...

Would be if it were to much for a hand clutch.

My Milwaukee stroker with a hack enjoyed an extra fat die spring in the middle!

My foot didn't notice the difference, but I could then hammer it without any slippage at all.

.....Cotten

[PRG]

Howdy chaps,

Downside to less springs, none if you don’t have slippage. The clutch actuating mechanism is positively crude on a Chief compared to a Knuckle. I’ve routinely seen Chief riders lug their motors and operate them suboptimaly to avoid awkward gear changes. The primary contributor is stiff actuation eliminating any chance of finesse like a swift double clutch to avoid clash on downshifts. I’ve let people ride my 346 with the arrangement below and their were in disbelief as to how much civil you can make one of these machines operate.

Configuration: Southern Products compensator sprocket, Qua sintered bronze clutch, Teflon disc replacing fiber washer, lowest clamping pressure, heel pad cut off and return spring fitted. This clutch can be depressed with my index finger. 2nd to third shift often done by bumping the gear lever with my knee while depressing the clutch. Admittedly, the spring in this compensator is spiral wound, cam compression and thus much softer lowering torque peaks and improving breakaway stiction. On my factory 80 inch cam operated compensator sprocket on the 348 actuation is stiffer, breakaway torque lower because of higher more abrupt peaks and thus 12 springs utilized.

[ChiefTwoKicks]

Thanks Peter... thats quite an explanation !! All of my Chiefs (4) have 16 springs and Greer clutch plates. Clutch action works very well, even on the steepist hills from a stop. Absolutely no complaints. I do feather the clutch, and the pedal is very smooth. No grabbing, no slipping. Each of them is just a wee bit different, but only slightly.
Sometimes, I will have to pull back on the top of the pedal ( less than a half inch or less) in the parking lot to be sure the clutch is fully engaged before I start my bike. (the heel plate isn't fully down against the footboard). No compensator sprockets... even on my stroker chief. I'm thinking thats the real clue here...

The only other question I have is this... where is the point at which the clutch actually engages ? or is the pedal action at the top of the pedal or more in the middle of the arc on the pedal ? How would you feather the clutch with the return spring attached to the bottom leg of the bracket ? seems like a true suicide clutch. I like it when I put the pedal in any given position, it stays where I put it. The action is still smooth, no stiffness anywhere in the range of movement.

Next time I break open the primary cover and clutch, I'll try removing some springs. Maybe I'll like it.

C2K

[PRG]

Howdy sir,

A number of factors point to where your clutch take up/fully engaged position is: clutch plate stack height, position of your clutch worm actuating lever (flipping it over changes it’s position), how you have your rod adjusted, and which hole you use on your clutch pedal arm (you’ll note I use the bottom, less effort and as your “moving” the lever less distance, more incremental control.

I will tell anyone either building a clutch setup from scratch with disparate parts or replacing clutch plates which results in a different stack height than before you want to verify exactly where you go into coil bind on release. As covered before here or at CAIMAG, measure the height of one spring collapsed, then the stack height of the assembled clutch plate’s distance to the u derisive of your pressure plate. That is your working range of motion, I have often seen clutches stomped on by unknowing owners till they bent their pressure plate and/or galled the bearing tracks of their throw out bearings and fracture bearings which then centrifuged into the clutch jamming it.

The beauty of sintered bronze as a clutch plate medium is that it is of such high friction coefficient requiring less clamping pressure and less surface area. My setup eliminates one steel and on plate using a spacer instead that I machined to give me a longer range of motion for complete disengagement. This imparts softer take up over that longer range of motion and also eliminates that “graunch” sound of the plate stack self aligning on take up that bugs many owners using QUA’s units with worn clutch basket bushings.

[kitabel]

For really long term storage... take the springs out

[pisten-bully]

Peter, my clutch set up with full springs works fine for me, you need a different setup that works fine for you and that's okay. Not certain I'd refer to any people here as "keyboard folks" because they don't slow-boat parade around Daytona with you, personally not my kind of riding. We're all devotees of antique motorcycles in this club, we have a shared interest in enjoying and preserving antique motorcycles.