Taillight Lens Original vs Repop

[JTR249]

Here's a thought, though I don't know how practical this is. Is it possible to go to a motorcycle museum and request to see originals?
I suppose it would depend on how well you knew the owner, but wouldn't that solve the identification question?
I actually bought one of these once and it was advertised as "NOS original" only to learn from Jim Preussner that it was a reproduction lens.
-JR

[FLFD7]

So what’s right and what’s wrong I don’t know. My theory is Indian used the 101278 up till the early 40’s then switched to the slightly different LUX A lens. Where the LUX version fits in I don’t know.

Out of curiosity I went out to my garage to see what is on my bikes

29A8CF8A-D980-49D2-A107-75EB0B279D3F.jpeg

1939 Sport Scout has LUX A

E8BB21E9-17D3-4E7B-AB66-DDD29987D728.jpeg

1940 Chief has a 101278

2D61C906-D6D4-446C-BD51-39AF419028BF.jpeg

1953 Chief has a LUX A

9B8F1F57-767A-49CB-943D-C72D000A88C3.jpeg

1940 Four has a 101278

24CC66AA-7C5A-4497-822A-8280A5C00708.jpeg

1942 Sport Scout has a LUX A

So now I’ll take notice on original bikes to see what lenses they have.

[FLFD7]

Ok, even more on this, since I had to give the lens for the Sport Scout a good cleaning and scrapping I made a few discoveries

520F9FA1-0A3A-4567-AD14-1C6B9E19B731.jpeg

The foam gasket had disintegrated and hardened so needed to be scrapped off, also there was what looked like spray paint overspray on the outside. Cleaning up the outside I found that this lens is indeed marked Stimsonite, it was faint till I cleaned it.

A89A1ACA-D09F-4BB3-B60D-D1C0C5235269.jpeg

Also, scrapping off the rubber revealed more markings on the flange

03804173-A218-423E-8EF3-41A8CA30888A.jpegB424C821-5B9B-47BB-9801-1F348AB33855.jpeg

There is 1951 which is I assume the year it was made, and C B 4040, which I think refers to the light it fits. CB refers to Cocoran Brown, who made lights for Indian. I may be wrong but I believe they were originally the Cocoran Lamp company (Cincinnati Ohio) and they bought out the John Brown Lamp company (Columbus Ohio) who made the motolamp, and the company became Cocoran Brown and supplied lights for Indian into the 50’s? I think they were bought out by Auto Lite. The taillight base is stamped CB

90D8AA58-8ADF-4B1F-8E0F-68D81F03760B.jpeg

I checked all my other lenses, this is the only one with those markings on the flange.

[JTR249]

I have seen the same information about Corcoran Brown when researching Moto Lamp history. I think the company was bought out by Electric-Autolite in 1935. I could be off on the year, but other members have said they continued to make the common Moto Lamps for Indian and HD VLs from '35-on. That was when the name changed from CB to Moto Lamp and no company name visible on any part because some parts came from different companies. Indiana Glass made their lenses. Brian Riegel, an Indian Vertical motorcycle enthusiast, recently posted when selling a lens that they were also manufactured as replacement lenses by a company called Lancaster Lens Company. It is entirely possible multiple companies were involved in parts sourcing. We know as far as the verticals and late Indian motorcycle history is concerned, this was a common practice.
Also of interest, I have seen different information on what some sellers have called "original" "NOS" parts. We know how commonly misused those terms are by some online sellers. However, two rear tail-light glass lenses for an Indian vertical may actually be original and have different company names on the flange.
It's always interesting when people get to talking about common questions of interest.
This is definitely an interesting thread, even though I have never driven my own Indian (yet) and never owned a Chief.
-JR

[JTR249]

Here's what Hatfield had in his manual.
If there were four different designs, all called '36-53, then why does the Starklite ad not look like any of them?
No offense to anyone.
-JR JH 214 RM.jpgJH Ad RM.jpg

[Skirted]

Thanks for the added info FLFD7. Wow the plot thickens. The lens you show in post #18 from your Sport Scout looks identical to mine that broke. the gasket even looked like mine! How does this one compare to your 101278 NOS lens?

I bought the $25 Ollies ebay repop while looking for an original and from pic it looks same as the Greer lens.
The red is not as dark and the amber is not as dark and it lacks the intricate diffuser features in both a red and amber portions of lens that mine had. So it functions, but fails as far as coming close to an acceptable cosmetic reproduction.

[PaulCDF]

"why does the Starklite ad not look like any of them?"

JR!!!!

I cannot speak to the quality of the photos in Starklites' catalog.

In post #3 above:

The light and lens on my bike are Starklite 12 volt Repop.
The lens in my hand had been on the bike since acquired by my older brother in 1980 or 81 perhaps a Repop also?

Both marked LUX.

Starklites on-line catalog pictures of tail light and lens are better



Starklite taillite assembly.jpg

Starklite Lens tail light.jpg

[JTR249]

Those are a lot better. You can see the lux too.
Thanks.
-JR

[FLFD7]

Hey,
Thought I would lay out the lenses I have like Hatfield has shown

CFC418AB-12B8-4002-BC91-B99923C111C1.jpeg14294E60-9765-4BB3-95D9-EF716995C8ED.jpeg

I don’t have one of the ‘36-‘37 lenses but I have seen them they look neat and don’t have a flat section on them.

On the bottom left in both pictures (I think) is what I call the LUX A lens (or should it be A LUX). This is the lens from my fathers 1941 Sport Scout, but I think was a replacement cause it’s marked 1951 on the inside flange. This bike hasn’t really seen daylight since 1971, so I doubt it’s a repop. It appears that the Starklite lens is a copy of this. Compared to the pictures in PaulCDF post 22 above this lens is marked A LUX on the outside and looks to have the 1/2” step from the bottom of the flat to the flange. It also has the large license plate area and the finer “pebble “ bumps on the inside flat section, and the fine lines around the bottom diameter. See the pictures below….

CA09434E-3875-4113-86D1-4DD023841FBD.jpegAF7BD587-4316-462D-86B1-3EEECDE651DB.jpeg

. 031110E1-2566-4ABE-8BFD-342EB9FDEE10.jpeg

I don’t know how close the color is on the Starklite compared to this one. I have heard and read that to get the real dark ruby red is expensive because they need to add gold chloride to the glass to get that color and not have it fade.

continued next post…..

[FLFD7]

In the upper right of Hatfields picture is what I’ll call the LUX version of the lens. It is marked LUX on the outside (with no A above the LUX). It has a smaller license plate area, so there is a thicker red band when looked straight on. This lens has the flat area at a different angle, and the flat area ends closer to the flange, about 1/8”. It has a thicker glass section, the lines around the bottom diameter are deeper and longer. The fine pebble texture on the inside of the flat section is more angular and pointed then round. See the pictures below….

E1BB5C79-4905-4932-AE95-046ACB1E8EF1.jpegA30CF639-2557-434F-AD49-27A37DFA5249.jpeg

78FFE4A0-177F-4461-A74B-FE2818B4484A.jpeg6A76F985-4A0A-4A62-9251-616221D170A9.jpeg

From what I can see in the photos I think that the Ollie’s repop lens that Jason Z has is close to this. The biggest difference besides the color is the Ollie’s lens has a much larger license plate area.

continued next post

[FLFD7]

On the bottom right of Hatfields picture is a lens I’ll just call 101278 (the Indian part no). I know this lens is not a repop as I got it in the original box from my friend Jules who cleaned out a few dealers back in the day.

This lens has no markings at all on it, a large license plate area, a flat section that ends about a 1/2” above the flange, and the flat section inside has larger rounded pebble texture. It is smooth all around the bottom inner diameter.

B8D3D0E4-D9B0-45AE-A5CF-A33CEBF53C46.jpegB833EAA5-248A-48C2-8C4D-0D543AF15BAA.jpegE709E151-A1B3-4404-A721-AB4F72A20285.jpeg

From the drawing on his website I think this is the style of the Greer repop lens. The drawing shows the larger 1/2” step. But the drawing doesn’t show any LUX markings. I was ordering some stuff from Greer today so I ordered one of his lenses and will post what they look like when I get it.

so three different vendors and three different style lenses. Cool

[Chris Haynes]

Wasn't the same lens used on Willys automobiles?

[FLFD7]

Willys, Bantam, Crosley, Nash cars and Cushman scooters used this style lens.

[T. Cotten]

Its hard to capture them with a photo, Folks,...

But here's the DIXIE's that I presume were made by Eversure of Old Delhi:

DIXILENS.jpg
No script anywhere, and about a half-inch 'step' to the flat.

....Cotten

[elmo]

Don’t want to ad to the confusion but Willys cars and trucks use a tail light that looks just like the one Indian used. Any willys guys out there who could clear is up