New cylinders

[brian_groff]

Word is the India cylinders are inferior. As I understand it, the cylinders are too soft and wear out in less than 1000 miles. I also understand that re-sleeving these repro cylinders is an effective cure. So, it seems they're OK to run as long as they've got a good sleeve.

I also saw that the price of the India cylinders on eBay is up to $750 now. Add the $300 for resleeving and you may as well just go for the good quality repro's that are out there. IMHO.

[T. Cotten]

Brian!

Please quote your source, as there are gaggles of 'builders' I wouldn't trust with even a real cylinder.
(I no longer offer motor service, nor expect to retail such hardware, so I am not being self-serving.)

Hearsay on the evening news is that India has the edge over the looming Chinese giant by virtue of their better metallurgy.
Without a comparative Brinnell test, I might suspect the rings or many other sources of problems.

We appreciate your hearsay too, but we need facts.

Got photos?

....Cotten

[brian_groff]

Sorry. I won't quote my source. If he wanted to make a public announcement, he'd post it here himself. Personally speaking, I'd say he's a subject expert.

I reckon the bottom line is know what you're buying.

[T. Cotten]

A note on a similar product:

I have received sleeves from the same importer as the Indian cylinders.
When compared to a high-quality L.A Sleeve by 'pinking' them with your finger, the L.A. Sleeve rings bell-like, whereas the imported sleeve just goes 'clunk', like it is made out of mud.

Yet it was reported by Ziggy on the VI List that he has used them with great success.

....Cotten
PS:
I have no hardness test equipment, except a spring-loaded center punch...

[ziggy]

Cotten
Get your facts straight.
Comparing my sleeves to the ones you are degrading is an inaccurate statement.
Just because there are several similar parts available, doesn't mean they come from the same supplier.
We've been using and selling a different imported cylinder sleeve for 10+ years. We have had nothing but positive results and accurate rockwell readings from them. I will continue using and selling these high quality parts

ZIGGY
ziggysmotorworks
360 871-8120

[Baytown]

Saw that comming a mile away

[T. Cotten]

Ziggy!

Good to hear from you again!

Please explain what you meant by this post to the VI list on 11-29-2002:


Re: [Virtual Indian] Kiwi/Sleeving


cotton
ziggy here
you thought wrong!
ive sold and installed non la sleeves for several years---never a problem
over 100 installed and sold
i wont use -la sleeves
and yes we will use the sleeves from india
and we will sell them
they are just fine!
ziggy
ziggys motorworks

I just took you at your word, which has always been good.

...Cotten

[ziggy]

Just what i said : You were implying poor quality import cylinder sleeves and challenged anyone to fess up to using/selling anything but your revered LA sleeve- so I did.
Your assumption that they come from the same supplier is inaccurate. My statement "Yes we will use the sleeves from india" directly referred to the sleeves i had just then recently supplied to you, when you questioned their labeled origin. It implied nothing about who my supplier is nor made any comparison to anything 4 years later.
When people lump all dealers, parts and suppliers together they are wrong.
Sometimes there is only 1 choice- good or bad- and i'll freely tell you that. Often there are many.
Bottom line ---Not all parts are created equal -- we test and use what we sell, or i'll tell you otherwise.
ziggy
www.ziggysmotorworks.com

[T. Cotten]

Good grief, Zig,

Read the discussion.

I am the one calling for reasonable inspection and dismissing hearsay.
If citing you as an authority for my contention offends you, I apologize, but I stand by my premise that just because a cylinder or sleeve comes from India does not mean its junk until proven guilty.

Let me know when you come back to Earth.

...Cotten

[exeric]

I've used L.A. sleeves in two Indian Chiefs with great results. There may be good sleeves from India but Ziggy won't say who makes them and I've heard bad things about "no name" sleeves and cylinders. As I stated before, if someone has enough pride to put their name on their product then I will be more inclined to purchase their stuff, and if it's made in America then all the better. Of coarse our hobby is too esoteric and small volume to warrant consumer product analysis so I'll go with a large American manufacturer over ambiguous foreign "no name" products if I have the choice.

[fabercycle]

I haven't read anything here from anybody that has actually bought a set of import cylinders, and held them in their hands....measured critical dimensions.....fit them on a bike......got a motor running using them etc. Only opinions, no facts.

T. Cotton is right when he suggests that y'all "wait and see" before condemning a new product.

I make my living manufacturing "Made in USA" parts for the anitique motorcycle community.......and I'd love to say that all the import products are junk...but it just isn't true. I've also spent 27 years as a machinist, and 15 years in Automotive engineering. I base my opinions on first hand FACTS, not hear-say.

So here's the factual info straight off the floor of our shop;


Brinell Hardness test......

Original Indian Cylinder = 187 Br

Dixie import Cylinder = 219 Br

Fit & Finish..........

Bore diameter, and Taper top-to-bottom within .0005"

mounting holes, tapped head bolt holes, valve seats, all premium quality.

The only problems encountered were....

1) Somewhat tight fit on one intake nipple thread.

2) significant intake nipple vacuum leak on front cylinder. (easily tested and sealed)

The motor was finished and installed last month, and has been running trouble free. There is no unusual extra metal in the oil tank.


Obviously, from the metal hardness test, there is no metal quality issues.

I would say, in overall value, for the money saved on buying the import cylinder, the amount of extra work on the intake issues is insignificant. We can't even repair a set of cylinders for what these new ones cost to install.....so maybe, for the "purists", that will create some extra originals to pick from, and everybody will be happy.

[swall]

Just curious about the vacuum leak.Was it due to casting flaws or was it a fit-up issue?

[fabercycle]

Swall,

The intake nipple wasn't seated in all the way. No problem with the casting.