New cylinders

[stan]

I have been seeing new cylinder's and pistons advertised for arond 500.00. This seams like a good price, Has anyone used them. I wonder where they are made? Stan

[AdminGuy]

Stan- in ref to which manu product? whos manu? whos distrib?

[indianut]

India

[Baytown]

Yep, I contacted the seller of some of these via Ebay, and he advised they were Indian in origin (country, not factory!!)
The VI group warned strongly re using these on a rider. Ok for static display and kicking over I'm told.
Remember, you get what you pay for.

Best wishes from Oz.

Ken.

[T. Cotten]

It is natural to be suspicious of the 'subcontinent' products,...

But they have not been available long enough for anyone to have put them to the test!

The same goes for the tranny gears.

It might be years until a sufficient quantity of these products are in service for anecdotes to start popping up. And you won't hear about successful use, as few riders will proudly proclaim "Yep! Made in India!"

I won't dismiss them until I find fault personally, or it is reported by a credible observer.

....Cotten

[Paps]

Excellent comment Cotten !! I learned recently that starter bendix gears for the auto industry have been manufactured in India for years. I never hear complaints on them. These parts must be of good quality for so many auto makers to use them. On the other hand....I run across other products which are down right poorly made from there also. Paps

[AdminGuy]

Okey dokey, shall we get into the science behind what makes a good quality "grey cast iron" for barrels and why. Any takers?

[swall]

What you want is class 30 gray iron with type A graphite. The class 30 indicates 30,000 psi tensile strength, which is about the minimum you need for a product with decent strength. The graphite type is important because when the cylinders are bored and honed, the graphite flakes on the bore surface will be slightly recessed in the process and will act as oil retention reservoirs on a microscopic scale. Problem will be finding a vendor willing to disclose what their specification, procurement and inspection policies are in order to insure a quality product.

[T. Cotten]

Ductile?

Swall!

The term 'ductile' gets applied and confused a lot when addressing modern replacement cylinders. Is that a distinctly different class of cast iron than 'gray'?

(It's all very ductile when the head of a valve comes off!)

Is there a quick scratch'n'sniff test to tell differences in cylinder material?

...Cotten

[Perry Ruiter]

This site:
http://www.mikebrownsolutions.com/knucklehead.htm
has some information on grey cast iron, why they think it's the right material for a cylinder and a simple scratch'n'sniff (bang'n'listen) test for Cotten. I know nothing about this subject and have never dealt with this vendor so caveat emptor ... Perry

[Paps]

Wish I could comment on iron classes but, alas.. I only machined them. Ductile cuts like butter. I love that ! Chilled iron cuts like glass. I hate that ! I noticed all iron has about the same expansion and contraction ratios though. Paps

[swall]

Cotten--ductile iron differs from gray iron in that the graphite is in the form of nodules (spheroids) rather than flakes. In that sense, it is somewhat like malleable iron. With ductile iron, a last minute addition of magnesium causes the graphite to solidify as spheroids. In malleable iron, a lengthy heat treatment converts white iron into malleable by changing iron carbides into nodular clusters of graphite. Ductile iron was not invented until after WWII, so you won't find it in any prewar machines. As to ductile iron cylinders, some aftermarket ones have been produced for drag racers, but to my knowledge, production cylinders were always gray iron. A quick test would be to hit the object in question with a hammer. Ductile iron will ring like steel, but gray iron, because of its dampening characteristics will be pretty dead.

[exeric]

It's been my experience that a manufacturer that is proud of their product will tell you more than you want to know about it. A good manufacturer will put their name on the product, tell you where it's made, and brag about why it's better than "Joe Guy's" junk.

Cotten's "wait and see" attitude has some merit, but why should a bunch of desperate schmucks have to gamble $500 on ambiguous cylinders to create a sample group.

It gripes me to no end that questionable, if not inferior products flood the American market and offer no accountability, warranty, or guarantee to the consumer.

[T. Cotten]

Exeric!

Please do not firmly make up your mind that they are junk.

Market attitudes are based on the history of oriental harley crap? Hearsay about Enfields? Or your personal experience with Indian repops from India?

I have been delighted with the "Subcontinent's" chassis items like footboards and tailight lenses. Even the batteries that I have sold are still in service, but carefully filled only to cover the plates (of course.)

I hear they make stuff in Delhi motel rooms.
That's as bad as my carb floats that are machined in the back of a century-old grocery store.

I don't care if a part is made on the dark side of the Moon as long as it is quality worth the price.
I shall wait until I hold the hardware in my hands before I succumb to anecdotes.

I have dealt with the importers of these cylinders since 1985. But I am out of the motorbuilding business until someone wants to manage my facility, so it may be Davenport before I inspect any.

....Cotten

[Baytown]

Indian Barrels from India

Apologies if I insinuated that items from Indian are substandard. It wasn't my intent, and in agreeance with Cotton, I only know what others who know more than me advise. I should have said that I don't want to be one of the first to use untested cylinders on my machine, as it's ridden hard, and I can't afford to be a test bed. I do need new cylinders on my Chief at present due to my little self destruct on the recent Malaney run here in Oz over Easter. I will however pay more for cylinders from proven suppliers. (Fully acknowledge that even these are known to have problems now and then).

Best wishes all.

Ken.