1935 Chief resleeve?

[hairynob24]

i saw on here or CAIF someone showed a youtube clip of a fella in the US using liquid nitrogen to heat the sleeve up than installed by hand on Harleys and has done quite a few ?i was impressed ...would this be better way of installing these sleeves rather than knocking them in ? or it still comes back to the wall thickness left .the guy that does my barrells has always pinned the sleeve not sure about this process ,i have a 46 barrel that broke away from the flange right around and you could see the pins i counted 3 and the brake went through all 3 pins..

[tfburke3]

There is little I can add, Hairynob,..

But that my own 334 is blown out to the max, for Badger 'Continental' pistons, yet sits un-assembled and un-tested.

At this rate, it may never get together.

...Cotten
PS: Here's a Chief sleeving that did not survive because of shoddy installation:
The sleeve itself burned, primarily due to horrendous chatter in the casting bore instead of a micro-fine finish.

Or perhaps it was secondary, if there was primarily a vacuum leak.

No experience with sleeves but a lot of piston sets have been on ebay for $20 + and I believe I saw .070's.I have no idea as to quality.
If the valve seats clean up I would probably run them rather attempt inserts,but hard to tell without pic.
Tom

[T. Cotten]

There is little I can add, Hairynob,..

But that my own 334 is blown out to the max, for Badger 'Continental' pistons, yet sits un-assembled and un-tested.

At this rate, it may never get together.

...Cotten
PS: Here's a Chief sleeving that did not survive because of shoddy installation:
The sleeve itself burned, primarily due to horrendous chatter in the casting bore instead of a micro-fine finish.

Or perhaps it was secondary, if there was primarily a vacuum leak.

[hairynob24]

Thanks Cotten , i would be looking for another set of barrells for the 35 Chief which is as rare as rocking horse **** , i didnt think you could go out to 70tho on an Indian ,my 22 doesnt get riden as much these days but have a spare set of barrells which took some years to fine 61 cubic blind barrells ??? interested to see what comes of the 35 barrells , i dont know if its worth contacting JD Jugs here in Oz to see if he would do a run of barrells if there is enough interest ,you never know ,Rob

[T. Cotten]

Well, HairyKnob,...

Naturally, it would be best to avoid the disaster in the first place.
The remaining wall thickness over the base flanges can be determined with a simple caliper, by reversing its setting screw.
After setting the points by feel upon the cylinder, the arms can be opened to clear the flange, and closed again for measurement with stacked feeler gauges or whatever.

This will also display if previous bores missed the centerline, as well as 'core float' in the original casting.

Sleeving is to be avoided if at all possible, not only because of the expense to custom-cut a sleeve, and then have it properly installed, but also because it inherently weakens the casting more than one more overbore.
And no sleeve will allow heat transfer like a solid casting. If the bore for the sleeve was not meticulously fine, the barrier is multiplied, and can be disastrous.
A sleeve within a sleeve would add yet another barrier.

Cylinder castings distort more and more with fastener stress the thinner they get.
Cut it super thin, and shove in a sleeve, and the distortion behaves like a circular spring inside of a circular spring.
Even a successfully sleeved back-to-stock cylinder benefits from an applied 'torque plate' for the final fitting for the piston.

So if we stress-fit an un-sleeved cylinder, how much wall left at the thinnest spot is "safe"?
I have an '80s oriental Pan cylinder that ran successfully at .030" overbore, but upon inspection, I noted a discolored area about the size of a rice grain.
My fingernail went right through it.

It is a very bad case of manufacturing core-float, but how could a motor run when the piston skirt was only a few thou away from atmosphere?

I put out several successful motors over the years with .070" remaining at the thinnest point.
Torque-plating is critical when fitting, and installation at that torque as well. I have observed H-D cylinders distort inward as much as three thou at spots, and outward three thou at others. (Indians do not distort as bad because they lack the long spigots.)
Horror stories of running hot and fragging thin cylinders was a result of avoidable friction!

....Cotten

[hairynob24]

Cotten photo made me sick this happen on my 22 chief ,is it possible to sleeve a sleeve ? going undersize ??? good luck would like to see where you go with this ...

[T. Cotten]

Sam!

You have excellent instincts.
An intact casting will always be stronger than one sleeved to daylight.

Please install some bottom stress plates for a better assessment of the cylinders' final bore, as they distort with fastener stress more the thinner they get.
I forgive pits in favor of 'straight' when assembled.
If you can have pistons/rings made, why light the fuse with sleeves?

Valve seats were never a problem when cast iron seats were available.

Grinding oversize valves down on their OD to fit would once again be the path of least grief.
It will be a lot more rewarding build than just an overhaul..

...Cotten

[samsmc1]

I have a pair of '35 Chief cylinders that are at .070 OS and have some pitting in the cylinder walls. These cylinders have between .170" to .205" thickness front to rear and on the sides. Over the base mounting holes, they measure around .070" thick. I'm afraid to sleeve these cylinders with the same sleeve I would use on a '40 thru '53 cylinder. Has anyone resleeved a cylinder and installed a smaller than 3.25" piston? I thought to have some pistons made up that were .040 to .060 smaller than standard - has anyone ever resorted to this method of saving an early cylinder?
I also have a problem with recessed valve seats. The ID of the seat hasn't been enlarged. It has only been recessed quite a bit. If I go to a 2 1/8th O.S. valve, the area between the cylinder wall and valve is really close. This engine will probably never get abused but I still want it right. Is inserting valve seats a safe way to reclaim these seats on the early cylinders.
Thanks
Sam