Clutch sliipage on '53 Chief.

[Tobydog61]

Hey everybody, it has been awhile since I posted last. Michigan weather is amazing this weekend and I wanted to try out the new clutch rod I installed over the winter on the Chief, mine was bent. This new rod is a little longer but Greer's says this is the right one. It actually feels better and engages the clutch farther forward which is much more comfortable. I'm not having to rock my foot so far back to get it to engage.

Only issue is I am still getting a lot of clutch slippage. I believe I have it set up right with 1/4" of space on the pedal to the floor board with it all the way back, and the clutch arm at the 2:00 position. Rolling on the throttle in second or third produces a lot of slippage.



The clutch itself was installed about 15 years ago when the bike was restored and it was a brand new King clutch with all new springs. I am running HD Formula + oil in my transmission and primary per the PO suggestion. The bike has 1500 miles on it since restoration. I am wondering if the springs are weak from sitting or if the HD Primary oil is just too slippery? Should I try another brand? Any suggestions?

I thought maybe riding the bike would get it to get stickier but last summer it never went away, even after some long day rides.

Any suggestions would help.

Thanks

Jeff

[Yellow53Chief]

Hi,
By chance, was the bike stored with the clutch is the disengaged position? This situation (if it happened) might have weakened the springs by having them sit in the compressed condition. I'm running a King clutch in my 53 Chief, and it has 25,000 miles on it with no excessive slippage. I'm running simple 10W30 motor oil in my combined fluid transmission/primary drive. If your unit is slipping - something isn't quite right. Maybe it is the springs, maybe it is the fluid you are running, maybe the friction discs have failed for some reason, and maybe the clutch pack stacking order is not proper or adequate. Without taking the clutch pack apart, I really can't be more specific. You might still have your clutch brake apparatus intact - and generally that should have no impact on your clutch slipping, but stranger things have happened. When you finally track down the problem, please let this thread know what happened. Thanks.

[tfburke3]

If you still have some play in the lever and rod you should be able to move the lever and feel the bearing is not under load when fully engaged, then its not adjustment of the rod .

If it still slips the clutch pack assembly may have been installed short(not likely if all new King),or if its a new problem the discs may discs may be worn.I use Hd sport trans oil with no issues.
Check for trans oil in primary and start with fresh fluid.Then take it apart for inspection if it persist.
Tom

[Tobydog61]

The clutch brake was not installed. The restorer felt they are trouble and can cause issues. As far as storing the bike all those years with the clutch disengaged, it could have happened but I would have no way of knowing. The clutch has so few miles on it I would say it can't be wear, but there could be an issue with how it was assembled. I made sure the clutch arm was fully to the rear and there was not pressure on the clutch before I set the rod up so I think I've got it right.

I may just order a new clutch kit and start from scratch. I've not replaced an Indian clutch before but that is how one learns so this may be a project that I have to take on to finish the winter. I want it right and ready to go for spring.

Thanks for the input.

Jeff

[pisten-bully]

Jeff, from what you wrote it sounds like you might be relying on the clutch arm to gauge when the clutch is fully engaged, but you can't do that. If you follow the procedure in the Rider's Guide you can't go wrong! Take the clutch arm off and turn the worm with a screwdriver to find the engagement point, then set up the arm and rod after doing that.

[Tobydog61]

I have read that portion of the riders instruction book over and over. I remove the clutch rod, turn the clutch worm all the way to the right so it should be fully engaged, then set my arm at 2:00. Is there more I should consider? It can't go back any further. I think I have it right.

If I go with a new clutch, should I go with the Kiwi Aluminum plate kit or the more traditional steel plates? I'm thinking of trying the Kiwi set up with new springs. I'm assuming the clutch pre assembly tool is well worth the investment to hold the clutch pack together prior to assembly?

[cdf6333]

I hope you mean " all the way to the LEFT". Remove the rod, turn the worm OUT ( with your fingers) until it touches the clutch inside. about 1/8 " to the right from this is the fully disengaged position you want with the clutch pedal in riding mode. Now put the lever at 2 PM and do whatever is necessary to make sure that you have the 1/8" ( at the worm) free play / DISENGAGEMENT in normal pedal. I put in a Greer clutch 4 years ago in my 80 and I'm pretty happy with it.

[Yellow53Chief]

Hi,
Any of the aftermarket friction disc kits that have a metal foundation for the frictions discs will probably work O.K. Even the original type friction discs that have no metal foundation at all worked O.K. The clutch pack tool is handy for both disassembly and assembly. I have one and use it whenever I have to get into my clutch. The 1952-53 clutch set-up is a little different than the one on earlier models. The clutch pedal pivot on the frame is raised and the clutch pedal itself is slightly different (the heel pad is not spring-loaded should the footboard strike it). The clutch itself inside the primary drive is basically the same though. When you turn the clutch worm clockwise - it moves inward and into the more engaged position. When you turn the clutch worm counterclockwise - it moves outward and into the more disengaged position. You should be able to feel a distinct point where a higher resistance is felt when the worm and its lever are turned more in a counterclockwise direction. This is the point when the clutch just starts to disengage. At this point, you want your lever at the 2 o'clock position and your heel pad about 1/4" - 1/2" off of the footboard. If this is the way your bike is, and the clutch still slips when the heel pad is touching the footboard, then something -somewhere, isn't quite normal. All of this may seem like the people responding are beating a dead horse, but language can get in the way sometimes.
Some of the clutch adjustment is personal preference. I like my clutch to engage with the heel pad almost on the footboard. Some people like the clutch to engage with the heel pad an inch or more above the footboard. Some people like to have the clutch engagement reversed - something like a Harley I'm told. I've never used my clutch in the reversed condition.

[Skirted]

If confident the adjustment is correct, pull the primary cover and remove the clutch plates (carefully noting how it was assembled) before you order a new clutch kit. Who knows what someone did......or didn't do 15 years ago. Once you assess and identify the problem, then order the parts you need.

[Yellow53Chief]

Hi,
Skirted; that is some good advice.

[PRG]

Howdy sir,

General consensus here to take apart and start over, not replacing parts as of yet, just determining what you have and forensically why it slipped which is absolutely not typical with a King or similar modern equivalent as your machine is very "overclutched" having been fitted with 16 springs so it could run a very heavy chair without modification. In solo spec this is overkill, I only run 12 on my hotrod 80 inch 348 with a Qua and 8 on a stock 346 with PowerFlow. Just as a motor can sit for decades with valves open and springs compressed without issue, so can your machine if those clutch springs of even moderate quality.

Seeing how your clutch pedal has the rod on the lower anchor hole, someone (the PO?) was attempting to make this device more user friendly as it lowers the pedal effort. Correspondingly it results in limited travel at the arm at the worm. It takes an inordinate amount of fine fettling to achieve full engagement and clean disengagement with the arm essentially moving only between 10 and 2 0clock when using 16 springs because of flex at the release plate.

Unlike dry clutches, those run wet will sear whatever lube they're running into the non-metallic plates if slipped continually. Whereas sintered bronze clutches are self cleaning any fiber or similar are not and will need to be deglazed to get an accurate handle on your clutch's inherent effectiveness. Your primary oil should not be to big a concern, I run HD Sportster primary/trans oil without issue.

[Yellow53Chief]

Hi,
In reviewing the initial photo, it looks like the adjusting rod may be striking the lever when the lever is in the fully clockwise position. This situation may be limiting the amount of clockwise rotation that the lever can obtain. The clockwise lever rotation direction is the direction the lever has to move in order to engage the clutch. When you make the pedal adjustment with the heel pad 1/4" or so above the footboard, this should not be the closest the heel pad can ever get to the footboard. The heel pad should still be able to go all the way down to the footboard - though this additional movement would not influence clutch engagement as the clutch would already be fully engaged. You don't want the rod clevis or the rod itself to strike the lever as the lever makes its clockwise engagement travel. I don't know if there is actually physical interference between your actuating moving parts, but it is something to consider as you try to track down your clutch problem.

[cdf6333]

But since you mention 15 years ago, I distinctly remember problems with King Clutches for a short period right around that time. The slotted holes were sized wrong and were binding on the clutch basket pins. For a while, as King was the first and only aftermarket clutch, I had to hand file every friction plate to move freely in the basket in every motor I did. If you do wind up going in, check that all parts move nicely on both the hub and in the basket.

[RonH]

On my 48 the King clutch plates I got with the bike were at least 10-15 yrs old but never used. I had to take a drill bit just a hair larger to open up the holes so there was free moving in the plates, the steels slid with no problem, now there isn't a single slippage. As yellow chief 53 said follow the adjustments are spot on and there shouldn't be any problems.

[kunzog]

So is it better to run 10w30 in the trans/primary drive or straight 30 weight? I am thinking straight 30 weight as I am wondering what the effects of a multi viscosity oil would have on clutch when the oil heats up.