Brief test ride today on the '53 Chief, A few issues I could us help with please.

[Tobydog61]

Strangely nice day today for Michigan in December, wrapped up a number of projects on the '53 Chief and had to get it out for a test run to see how I did with my little projects I have been working on. I have a few questions/concerns and would appreciate some feed back.

1. Not related to anything I did but a huge concern is that as I pulled out of the sub, the tire slipped and the front end pushed badly enough that I thought I was going to low side it. The tires are the Avon MK II vintage knock offs, with a date code of 1702 so 14 years old, ouch. The PO put less than 400 miles on the bike since doing a resto and I think he armor all'd the side walls for shows. This plus the cold pavement I assume made for little grip. I know these old style tires aren't up to sporty driving but this slipped way too easy with just a little lean. I may try to clean the tread area and see if that helps, but wondering if a new set is in my future. Hate to spend the money but going down is not an option. I'm reading to run these modern tires at higher PSI than the book says. They were both at about 20 PSI and I am reading 30 is better?

2. Lengthened the clutch rod because the engagement point was too far back and I couldn't roll my foot that far back. It's much better but it comes on a little too quick now and has very little pedal resistance. Not sure why that changed but it did. I will shorten it a little and tighten the pedal tension nut. I changed the primary oil and put Yamabond on the worm ring because it was leaking quite badly. It had a tiny drop but much improved. Anything else I could have done to change the tension so much?

3. The tip of the stud that comes out of the engine case for the L bracket from the bottom of the Linkert stripped. I must have cross threaded it and it now spins in the case. Is it possible to change this stud without much drama? The stud itself had a nut up against the case and another one holding the bracket on. The one against the case spins the stud so it must be stripped inside the case as well as having damaged threads.

4. The one that worries me the most, the transmission pops out of first when accelerating. I tightened the shift dent. It was about 1/3 out from bottoming and I took half of that up but it still pops out. I dread the thought of rebuilding the tranny but.... First is the only gear it does this in. Can I run the detent right snug to bottoming out?

Sorry for rambling on but any help would be great.

Jeff

[tfburke3]

Strangely nice day today for Michigan in December, wrapped up a number of projects on the '53 Chief and had to get it out for a test run to see how I did with my little projects I have been working on. I have a few questions/concerns and would appreciate some feed back.

1. Not related to anything I did but a huge concern is that as I pulled out of the sub, the tire slipped and the front end pushed badly enough that I thought I was going to low side it. The tires are the Avon MK II vintage knock offs, with a date code of 1702 so 14 years old, ouch. The PO put less than 400 miles on the bike since doing a resto and I think he armor all'd the side walls for shows. This plus the cold pavement I assume made for little grip. I know these old style tires aren't up to sporty driving but this slipped way too easy with just a little lean. I may try to clean the tread area and see if that helps, but wondering if a new set is in my future. Hate to spend the money but going down is not an option. I'm reading to run these modern tires at higher PSI than the book says. They were both at about 20 PSI and I am reading 30 is better?

2. Lengthened the clutch rod because the engagement point was too far back and I couldn't roll my foot that far back. It's much better but it comes on a little too quick now and has very little pedal resistance. Not sure why that changed but it did. I will shorten it a little and tighten the pedal tension nut. I changed the primary oil and put Yamabond on the worm ring because it was leaking quite badly. It had a tiny drop but much improved. Anything else I could have done to change the tension so much?

3. The tip of the stud that comes out of the engine case for the L bracket from the bottom of the Linkert stripped. I must have cross threaded it and it now spins in the case. Is it possible to change this stud without much drama? The stud itself had a nut up against the case and another one holding the bracket on. The one against the case spins the stud so it must be stripped inside the case as well as having damaged threads.

4. The one that worries me the most, the transmission pops out of first when accelerating. I tightened the shift dent. It was about 1/3 out from bottoming and I took half of that up but it still pops out. I dread the thought of rebuilding the tranny but.... First is the only gear it does this in. Can I run the detent right snug to bottoming out?

Sorry for rambling on but any help would be great.

Jeff

Hey Jeff,
The top case center stud is not threaded in the case,but clamped with a nut on each side.The nut on the dist. side must be spinning.Get a new stud and 3 new nuts.You should be able to replace with out removing dist.
Popping out of gear is usually chewed up gears or bent mainshaft..
Tom

[Skirted]

1. Never heard the Avons being a problem even if old. I'd expect a bike like that was stored in a climate controlled environment which greatly slows down rubber degradation. I've seen some people with show only bikes treat the tire treads with chemicals to make them black or shine which also makes them slippery so that's a possibility. Riding should make that go away if that's the root cause. When I got my bike I rode on 25 year old Goodyears until the tread started to separate but never had a problem with traction or tendency to slip.

4. My bike popped out of 2nd gear on long hill ascents and got lucky it took just a 1/4 turn of the detent. Your 53 looks like it was totally rebuilt. You might start by asking the previous owner if they know what was done to the transmission when it was apart. Also try to find out what type of clutch was installed just so you know. In the mean time, get used to holding it in gear until you get to second. If necessary, taking the top off the trans for inspection isn't terribly difficult but replacing gears gets considerably more involved.

[bentonmyers]

Hi Jeff,
I would blame the tire issue on age alone. The rubber starts to gradually deteriorate as soon as it comes out of the mold. I have seen a 10 year old Metzeler on the rear of my friends BMW that would spin very easily, especially in the damp conditions. The new tire (same model) was a night and day improvement.

Benton

[Tobydog61]

Hey Jeff,
The top case center stud is not threaded in the case,but clamped with a nut on each side.The nut on the dist. side must be spinning.Get a new stud and 3 new nuts.You should be able to replace with out removing dist.
Popping out of gear is usually chewed up gears or bent mainshaft..
Tom

So the stud is long enough to go all the way through the engine cases from distributor side to carb side? If all I need is a new stud I'll order from Greer's. Thx

[Tobydog61]

Went for a quick ride tonight before dark to see if cleaning the front tire tread blocks worked and the bike felt much better leaned over. I ran some scotch brite over the tire to get the armor all off and get to some fresh rubber, seems much better.

I see now how the fix the stud for the carb bracket so I'll order one from Kiwi.

Adjusted the shift detent right down tight and it still pops out of first. I am thinking a tranny rebuild is in my future and is going to take some research. Not sure if I have the time or ability to do it my self but Second and Third seem fine, first will not hold. How involved would it be to do myself? Reading the Indian service manual is fairly vague so I may be best off to pull it and send it out for rebuild. Would Kiwi be my best choice to do the work?

Jeff

[Bill Huth]

Jeff,

Did you take the detent out completely and take a look at it? It is as quick as adjusting it, and maybe the spring took a set, and is not providing enough force against the shifter fork. Probably not likely, but certainly easy to do. A friends' bike was popping out of 1st, and I test rode it and kept my hand on the shifter, holding it into gear. I could feel the bump that was pushing it out, it was that bad. It was a badly chipped gear. Maybe another easy check. I don't think you will feel any bent mainshaft, because bent can be a very small amount. For your clutch, don't forget the arm on the worm has 8 sides on it. If the increments between the octagon don't put it where it needs to be you flip it over. Flipping it over gives you the in between spot from the other side octagon. Those clever Indian engineers! That with the clevis adjust, you should be able to make just about any adjustment. I guess if you made a new rod, you are good. But if you didn't know about flipping the arm on the worm, it does come in handy. Congrats on your Indian, the ride, and the good weather in December!

[Tobydog61]

Bill-Thanks for responding. I did remove the detent spring and it feels very strong and consistent but I don't have a reference to compare it to. Funny that screwing it in doesn't seem to change how it shifts. I'm starting to think I'm not truly bottoming it out. I need to grind my tool I bought for wide flat head screws so it fits the narrower slot in the detent screw. I assume they made this one thinner so you can't over tighten it? The bike has a good positive notchy feel when shifting, you can feel each gear so it seems to be working. If I leave my hand on the shift I can feel it pull itself into neutral and there's no grinding or crunching just a very smooth push on the lever from first. It's almost like an automatic transmission shifting itself at the correct RPM. I'm wondering if I should try a new detent just for kicks. Looks like they are $36, not cheap but better than a rebuild.

I appreciate the insight on the clutch linkage and continue to mess with that to get it right. You are correct that Indian had some really innovative design solutions that continue to amaze me.

Jeff

[Yellow53Chief]

Hi,
About 50% of Chiefs have an issue with the clutch pedal not staying where it is put. The pedal tends to vibrate back into engagement when the engine is running. This is quite disturbing if your left foot is on the ground balancing the machine at a stop light/sign. The bike is either going to start to take-off, or the engine is going to stall. In many instances, tightening the spring doesn't help. My bike had this type of clutch pedal problem and the fix was to use a much more aggressive friction disc in the pedal assembly. The factory friction disc is somewhat thin and smooth - very similar to the steering dampener friction discs. The friction disc I'm now using is 1/4" thick and is brake lining material - the woven type with brass threads running through it. My pedal now stays where I put it - no matter what. It works so well now that I have to be careful not to get off the bike with the engine running and the bike in gear. If I have to get off of the bike with the engine running, I make absolutely sure the bike is in neutral before doing so.

[tfburke3]

Bill-Thanks for responding. I did remove the detent spring and it feels very strong and consistent but I don't have a reference to compare it to. Funny that screwing it in doesn't seem to change how it shifts. I'm starting to think I'm not truly bottoming it out. I need to grind my tool I bought for wide flat head screws so it fits the narrower slot in the detent screw. I assume they made this one thinner so you can't over tighten it? The bike has a good positive notchy feel when shifting, you can feel each gear so it seems to be working. If I leave my hand on the shift I can feel it pull itself into neutral and there's no grinding or crunching just a very smooth push on the lever from first. It's almost like an automatic transmission shifting itself at the correct RPM. I'm wondering if I should try a new detent just for kicks. Looks like they are $36, not cheap but better than a rebuild.

I appreciate the insight on the clutch linkage and continue to mess with that to get it right. You are correct that Indian had some really innovative design solutions that continue to amaze me.

Jeff

Hey Jeff,As mentioned you will have a better idea whats going on when you take off tower to inspect.Bent mainshaft is usually popping out of second as the slider is in the middle.If gears look ok check the cluster up and down play by grabbing it.The rt. side cluster shaft bushing is prone to spinning,enlarging the hole,and letting the cluster gear move around,same for cluster bushing and shaft wear.
If you send out the trans for rebuild you may want to consider pulling the engine and trans together.Sounds like a lot more work but really isn't .Even if you send out the trans seperately you would need to disassemble the primary drive to remove and when you reassemble you may be back inside the trans to align and reassemble the primary drive.If the clutch basket alignment is off any shimming throws of the mainshaft end play and you are working on the inside again,although just changing thrust washers.
If you think you need just new gears and don't have to remove trans case for bearing change or machining then I would just disassemble the primary drive and work with powerplant in the bike.
The detent adjustment should make shifting harder as you adjust down to the point of the linkage rod almost bending.If you cant feel a difference,engine not running,somethings wrong.
Hopefully you don't have a repop slider that is to soft and self destructed causing your popping out.
Tom

[Green Indian]

You may have already viewed this but Mike Thomas has a informative Chief transmission rebuild video on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HK06bLXYDE

[Tobydog61]

Thanks for getting back with me guys. I have watched the video and it's very informative as to what all is going on in the tranny. I am not sure I would take a rebuild like that on myself but it does look do able.

I took my Harley tappet screen tool that I got and filed it down so it would fit the thin slot on the detent. found that what I thought was bottomed out was still a ways from true bottom. it turns with more resistance but it does continue to lower into the case and now it shifts noticeably harder.

There is salt on the roads now so I will have to wait for a test drive and hope that it will stay in gear. I may still remove the tower as recommended and see how everything looks.

Jeff