1940 Chief VIN, Does This Look Correct?

[Tobydog61]

So, looking on line at a '40 Chief and the owner sends me this pic of the VIN:



No B, M, or BM but that's correct for a '40 isn't it?

Also, he sees no VIN on the left rear slipper where the axle goes which is where the '40 is. This was a strange choice for Indian to put it on something that can be removed.

Without a matching frame number, I could never have this bike judged could I?

Thx

Jeff

[kval]

So, looking on line at a '40 Chief and the owner sends me this pic of the VIN:



No B, M, or BM but that's correct for a '40 isn't it?

Also, he sees no VIN on the left rear slipper where the axle goes which is where the '40 is. This was a strange choice for Indian to put it on something that can be removed.

Without a matching frame number, I could never have this bike judged could I?

Thx

Jeff

the numbers look right, that is fairly early numbers so the slipper probably broke and was replaced. numbers DO NOT have to match, as long as motor and frame are the same year

[Tobydog61]

so as a judge, you would allow there to not be a frame number if it was a correct frame? What features would I look for to make sure it is the correct year frame?

[Bills37]

ChiefID.jpg


Hope this helps.

Link: https://www.jerrygreersengineering.c...y-your-indian/

[Tobydog61]

yes, very helpful, thanks. I'm just afraid that without a frame VIN this bike could not be judged.

[NiteOwl]

I have a 40 chief and the number is not on the slipper but on the left rear shock bottom receiver which is part of the frame. I had to remove paint to see it but its there. I am fairly certain its original so some of the 40's must have started to stamp the frame in that location.

[D.A.Bagin]

My very early 40 four has the number on the slipper. They were prone to breakage especially if a car was added. Mine is in the first 25 off the line. At some point they added a reinforcement to the top of the slipper and putting the number there would not work. I don't know when, but it did change over to the frame at some point in 40.

[exeric]

My '40 had it's number on the slipper, but I have seen '40s with the number on the frame forging like most later Chiefs. The '40 left side slipper was weak, and was modified as D.A. stated. In regards to the original question from Jeff; I believe the motor # is the important #, and particularly on a 1940 Chief, or four due to replaced slippers as stated by Kevin.

[tfburke3]

So, looking on line at a '40 Chief and the owner sends me this pic of the VIN:



No B, M, or BM but that's correct for a '40 isn't it?

Also, he sees no VIN on the left rear slipper where the axle goes which is where the '40 is. This was a strange choice for Indian to put it on something that can be removed.

Without a matching frame number, I could never have this bike judged could I?

Thx

Jeff

I have a set of CD0 cases,nothing else,but the C has the little vertical line on top of the C like all other chiefs..These cases are in the late 400 series.I cant tell from pic if C is plain or the correct fancy.Also my cases have BM,no inspection hole,and the breather hole boss is undrilled,unlike yours which is drilled and plugged,but that may be running change as mine are slightly later.
Tom

[Tobydog61]

None of the letters appear to be the fancy style and this is advertised as a Bonneville but no BM so kind of strange.

[tomfiii]

Are not the threes supposed to be rounded on top?,possible replacement cases.

[someozybloke]

Hi

I have a late 1940 frame in the 1000's and it is stamped on the lower damper/shock mount.
Must have been a running change during 1940 to move to the frame stamp away from the slipper.
Not 100% sure when they introduced the BM stamping on bikes, but offered the Bonneville from 1939.

[Yellow53Chief]

Hi,
1940 Chiefs are one of the most difficult models to scrutinize number-wise. The CDO series of Chiefs contain military and civilian models, and after WWII, there was much civilianization of military bikes with many factory replacement cases available. CDO is the correct prefix for a 1940 Chief, but it does not designate civilian or military. It is true that early 1940 Chiefs had the frame serial number on the left rear slipper upper flat, and it is also true that the frame serial number was moved to the lower outer curved surface of the left rear spring casting. When the change occurred is not known with certainty, but some claim that it was done within the first 1,000 machines. If judged, hopefully the judge would realize the difficulty if the frame was early and had the numbered slipper replaced. I would not stamp/restamp the frame or slipper unless you are 100% certain of the correct placement and also 100% certain that the correct stamps are used. Many of the number/letter stamps that are out there are only correct for certain specific number ranges of machines.
Many interesting observations have already been mentioned in this thread. The plugged hole below and in the front of the number pad does continue into 1940 from 1939, but the feature is dropped fairly early in 1940 production. Some plugged holes do appear sporadically in later cases, but it is unclear if this was factory on a 1940 case or the use of a replacement case that happened to have the hole plugged. Concerning the B, M, or BM; some insight can be obtained by studying the 5,000 CAV Chief engines that were built in 1939/1940 for France. Martin Bogaert (author of ‘An American in Paris’) has done such a study and he has reported that on early CAV engines, there was enough room on the number pad for the 'B' to be stamped into the pad along with the model and serial number. On higher number machines, there was not enough room left on the number pad and then the 'B' was stamped to the right of the pad. Early CDO engines have also been seen with the ‘B’ or ‘M’ stamped into the number pad. In the example below; CDO106B, the 'B' is on the number pad. In the example below; CDO480M, the ‘M’ is on the number pad. By CDO833, the ‘B’, ‘M’, or ‘BM’ is off of the number pad.
The ‘C’ used with CDO and CAV engines has a short vertical header. This persists throughout the series. The ‘C’ in CDO331 does not. In addition to the vertical header, the original factory ‘C’ is slightly shorter than the following ‘D’. One must look closely to see the difference, but the difference persists throughout the series. The ‘3’ for 1940 typically has a flat top and a short vertical header. The ‘3’ in CDO331 does not have the short vertical header. The ‘1’s have some variation, but the slightly angled header in CDO331 is shorter than I would expect. Due to the lack of any ‘B’, ‘M’, or ‘BM’, and due to the issues mentioned above, CDO331 is likely not a factory stamping. The stamping was likely put on a replacement case. I give the non-factory stamped conclusion a 95% certainty. 100% certainty is rarely possible due to normal slight factory variations. Could the work have been done by a dealer? Yes. Could the work have been done by an individual owner? Yes. CDO331 was likely chosen to match the original engine, or to match frame 340331, or to match existing paperwork.
Engine/frame numbers were not scrutinized very closely in the past. As long as they looked ‘close’, they were considered good enough. Times have changed. Due to the increasing values of vintage Indians, the importance of ‘matching numbers’ has also increased, as ‘matching numbers’ suggests a kinder – less harsh history. A better history usually translates to a higher value, and this monetary incentive had driven many people to alter/modify numbers in order to potentially increase the value of a machine by creating ‘matching numbers’. Luckily for the hobby, most alterations/restamps are detectable to people who have the examples for reference. I have been evaluating Indian engine and frame number for many years, and I have a reference library of over 500 different engine/frame numbers. I evaluate all Indians, but my focus is on the 1946-53 Chiefs. Sincerely, Steven Bailey Yellow53Chief, 567ste, baiste@sgu.edu

Four photos are in this reply and three more will be in the next. Site limitations won’t let me put all seven photos in one reply.

1940 Chief CDO106B.jpg1940 Chief CDO331.JPG1940 Chief CDO480M.jpg1940 Chief CDO833B.JPG

[Yellow53Chief]

Hi,
Here are the other three photos.
1940 Chief CDO974BM.jpg 1940 Chief CDO1222B.jpg1940 Chief CDO3186.jpg

[bstevens479]

Thanks for info I have a CDO 3 digit low number BM & my C looks like yours, My frame is stamped like example 34010xx not on slipper.