Looking at Making the Step Toward Owning My First chief.

[Tobydog61]

So I have been riding and working on bikes most of my life and of late have been working on old Triumphs. I just finished the restoration on a '67 Bonneville and also have an all original '64 Bonneville that I enjoy showing and having judged at AMCA events. I have always loved vintage Indians and at Wauseon I just decided it was time to pull the trigger. I sold the '67 Bonneville and am starting to look for a bike. I always lean toward the '46 to '48 Chiefs but am open to earlier bikes.

I picked up Hatfields New Restoration Guide and have been doing some research on features of the different year bikes but I know that the road to knowing what to look for on a bike when trying to buy is long. After 5 years, I can spot what is wrong on most late '60's Triumphs but I have just started down that road for Indians and have a lot to learn but that's the challenge.

Can some of you give me some basics when looking at bikes? What key things do you look for and questions do you ask previous owners that clue you in as to the quality of a restoration and value of a particular bike as compared to another.

I am interested in a bike I can take to a show, possibly have judged at AMCA events but still be able to ride and not worry about putting miles on a trailer queen.

And, no, I have never ridden a foot clutch/hand shift bike but see it as a challenge and can't wait to try.

Thanks for your time.

[pisten-bully]

I am interested in a bike I can take to a show, possibly have judged at AMCA events but still be able to ride and not worry about putting miles on a trailer queen.

Toby, I'll give it a shot and hope others jump in, too. The 1940's Chiefs and early 40's Scouts are good riding bikes I think and good quality parts are available, too, either new or found. Given your desire to maybe go for a judge-able Chief maybe you should look for a numbers matching bike, in any condition. If you want one that you can hop on shortly after purchase there's plenty of those out there, BUT you'll find lots of those are put together with wrong parts... but you could take the approach that you can ride it and replace the wrong parts as you go (it's common to see wrong parts in chrome for example, wrong paint, wrong gauges, horn or lights, or the equally common wrong seat with frilly skirts on them).

They're pretty straight forward bikes that you can work on yourself, so that's good, and if you get going on it you'll find lots of similarities to the 1930's Indians so that when you start looking for your next Indian project after this one you can comfortably look for one in the 1930's decade!

FWIW, the skirted Indians are eye-catching for sure.... but my next one won't have skirts only because it's pretty inconvenient to work on or even check the lug nuts on. I ride mine about 6000 miles per year and I'd love to find a 1945 Civilian use Chief or a pre-skirts Chief or Scout, too!

[Green Indian]

I would second what Pisten Bulley has said. You'll have to figure out your budget and work from there. If your goal is to be riding one right away then there are plenty of good post war Chiefs on ebay and most are selling for less than the owners have into them (unless the owner did most all of the work them selves).

To be judged by the AMCA it will need to have matching #'s. Learn to recognize what proper Indian VIN#'s look like. Search this site and find a lot of posts about Indian VIN's.

I bought and restored a 1948 Indian Chief about 20 years ago and sold it after it had received it's Junior First at the AMCA Jefferson meet a number of years ago. It was a stunning Prairie Green bike and I sure do miss it. Best handling bike I've ever ridden in many respects.

Keep going to AMCA meets and keep talking to Chief owners. Most are very happy to share their ownership experiences with some one who's actively looking.

[Skirted]

I was 4 years ago where you are now but I wasn't into street bikes, only off-road let alone a tank shift machine and didn't know AMCA existed. I too was after a 46-48 Chief. Doing authentic car restorations for years and building cars I was afraid to drive I knew I didn't want a garage queen but rather something presentable I could ride without fretting over a stone chip or getting caught in the rain. Also wanted a bike that would provide the best chance of holding its value. Matching numbers, original sheet metal and largely unmolested and original appearing. I found the AMCA, came here for help then eventually it lead to meeting local chapter members who were also a big help. Since you have been to meets you already know the best thing to do is talk to other owners and look at as many bikes as you can. I studied and saved pics and details of every ebay listing on the 46-48 in an effort to self teach myself and that was helpful. I also watched listings for parts to get an idea what they cost. One thing that stands out in all the good advice relative to the purchase itself was this statement by another member" Buy once, Cry once, the quality remains long after the price is forgotten"

As Harry mentioned there are a many bikes out there that look nice but are put together with poor workmanship and incorrect and mismatched parts. This is OK as long as the asking price reflects that but often it doesn't and the buyer doesn't realize until its home in the garage. I've seen some bikes touted as being restored by Indian "experts" but see many incorrect items on them. When you find a bike you like, the best thing to do is have 1 or more qualified and trusted people look over pictures and details to vet the machine. You can't really trust sellers descriptions ESPECIALLY a dealer as many are uninformed.

As far as having a rider AND one to enter in AMCA judging with hopes of a high scorer, that's tough to do unless you only ride it very infrequently. High scoring bikes I've seen see very little if any road time.

I had no problem getting used to the tank shift and I ride two-up often. My only training was a YouTube video. Honestly I like it so much I wouldn't want anything but a tank shift bike. Makes you feel more an integral part of the experience.

I was taught by the experienced that engines rebuilt "properly" for reliability are expensive unless you can do the work yourself. Be careful if you try to save money by buying something that needs a lot of work. Chances are you'll have a lot more in it than you would if you spent $26-30k on a turn key bike. The project bikes are best left to guys who have shelves full of parts, deeply connected to unadvertised parts sources, and a machine shop in their garage.

Inspect the frame and front end for signs of damage or repairs. Properly done alignment and repairs are fine but beware of ones that aren't. Not easy or cheap to fix.
If numbers are important to you, learn what an original stamp looks like on frame and engine. I've seen MANY fake re-stamps.
The charging systems can be a source of frustration for many and a reason the bikes sits but an original 6 volt system with a serviced generator, electronic regulator and Lithium iron battery will be trouble free for many 1000s of miles and no problem running lights all the time.
Properly tuned bikes start with little effort using same method described in the original riders manual.
Keep lots of cash easily accessible. When you find the right bike, do not delay. I travelled 1000miles on a moments notice to get mine.

Lastly, be prepared to get flogged wherever you take the bike in public. I had a lot of advice on other things but nothing prepared me for this.

[LouieMCman]

By all mean buy a mid 40's Indian Chief, everybody should have one. They ride great, better than a mid 40's HD, upgrade the clutch plates, you'll get used to the foot clutch and left hand throttle, best looking bike of the era. you'll figure out all the details as you go, they are really pretty simple. Bought mine in 1983 for a whooping $1900. and restored it by 1988. My first Indian was a chopper which I only had for a couple years and traded it when I got the original one. Plenty of experts here to help you.

[kjsisterson]

IT's a sin I know, but I converted my Scout to a right hand throttle. I ride too many bikes to get used to that one. Mainly I shift right footed (triumph Bonneville), and my modern touring two up bike is left foot shift. That I can work out pretty easily.
I also have a HD u Model with the clutch backward for disengaging. (heel down) Just got it recently and have only driven it 2 miles.
Just know, in an emergency, how to get the clutch disengaged, ie Toe down, or heel down.
KJS

[Tobydog61]

Thanks so much for all the input. I realize that I am going to need to step up money wise and now is not the time to try and go on the cheap. I don't have the time to take on another restoration project at this point and want something as Harry describes that I can slowly work on making correct. I already made contact on one Chief that a friend who works on Indians pointed out did not look right with the stamped VIN numbers. He showed me how the letters should all have the stylized triangular corners on them and not just block shaped letters.

The issue I have is that I have always been able to find bikes within 3 or 4 hours of my home in Michigan but for these rare birds I find myself looking at bikes that are 15 hours away and trying to decide if they are what I'm looking for based on pictures, very difficult. Matching numbers is a must to ensure that the bike maintains it's value.

The statement about "expert restorations" is a huge concern. I see Triumphs all the time that people call "concourse" and they are so wrong it is scary.

So, I will continue to look and I may throw a bike out there once in awhile for your consideration and please shoot me bikes that you think are worth checking out.

Thanks

Jeff

[jim d]

I would suggest that when you find a bike you are interested in, to purchase a camera card from Staples send it to the owner and have him take 75-100 photos of the bike and then send it back so you can put it on your PC and get a good look at the bike. His idea of good and yours may not be the same and you will be able to get a better look at it before that you take a long trip to see it. I made one trip on a couple of photos and the bike was that bad I never even made a offer. It will only cost you about $10.
Jim D

[Green Indian]

Another thing to look for is rust in the gas tanks. Even if a seller sends photos of a really nicely restored bike (I'd recently looked at a nice '42 Chief but the tanks were really rusty inside) try and look in the tanks to see what state they are in.

[Tobydog61]

Look at this ebay bike. Again, I'm learning but the serial number looks very wrong without the stylized triangles on the corners of the letters. Would you agree?

What would the three dots after the B be for? Is this so nobody can add an M and claim it's a Bonneville?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/201424815771...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

[exeric]

The dots wouldn't bother me, as it was common for people to put initials, and symbols on a motor case for whatever reason. The Font may not be correct as I believe Indian had serifs on their font sets, but the subtle nuances of Indian fonts is a bit vague. Harley-Davidson number fonts are extremely well documented by the FBI, CIA, Sanctimonious Harley nerds, and possibly the Dalai Lama.

[Green Indian]

There is a AMCA forum member, Yellow53Chief, that posts here as well as Classic American Iron's online MC forum and he has complied a huge database on Indian VIN's. He's very helpful and should chime in at some point about your VIN on that '48 on eBay.

[Skirted]

Look at this ebay bike. Again, I'm learning but the serial number looks very wrong without the stylized triangles on the corners of the letters. Would you agree?

What would the three dots after the B be for? Is this so nobody can add an M and claim it's a Bonneville?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/201424815771...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I'd like to see the frame VIN. Not much use in showing the engine # if no frame # accompanies it. The engine stamp looks like a restamp to me.....or at least would need more investigation. Stamps usually aren't that light and the number style is not consistent with other original stamps I have seen in the 6000s range of numbers.

[Green Indian]

Jeff,

Here's a YouTube link to a Mike Thomas's video on Indian VINs, the first bike on it is a '48 with some good close up shots of the number for comparison. I hope it helps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HF6VcWDPiI0

[Tobydog61]

Can you guys comment on this former eBay bike? '41 chief that looks fairly accurate but tell me what you see that isn't right. I think should have chrome headlight and he says exhaust is later year and powder coat on wheels but I don't see much else. Thx. Jeff

http://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/301727342232