1947 Chief charging issue

[agreeneone]

I have a 1947 Chief that I recently underwent a restoration. It has the original 6-volt system. The generator has been rebuilt. I am using a 11-12 amp sealed lead acid battery. I am still in the break in stage since the rebuild and have put about 25 slow miles on the bike over several days, just riding it slowly around in the neighborhood at 10-25 mph. I had been keeping the headlamp on during this time. I recently stalled the bike and could not get it started only to find out the battery was weak/dead. After sitting for several minutes the battery regained just enough power to get it started. When I got back home I put the battery on a charger. The battery is now reading 6.5v sitting on a full charge. When I let the bike idle for 10-15 minutes it charges up 8.6v on the multimeter. This is without the headlamp on. Once I turn the headlamp on the voltage starts to drop very quickly. I am assuming the headlamp was the cause of the battery losing it's charge. The question's I have is 8.6v a normal charge while at idle? And how can I keep the battery from losing it's charge with the headlamp on?
Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
~Aaron

[marsh1915hd]

Do you have a 6 volt car headlight in it? You need to run a motorcycle head light it uses less amp's that a car one. I have to disconnect my fender light to stop it from going dead in 4 hours. I put a 12 V generator in it, now have no problems running all the lights I want.

[tfburke3]

I have a 1947 Chief that I recently underwent a restoration. It has the original 6-volt system. The generator has been rebuilt. I am using a 11-12 amp sealed lead acid battery. I am still in the break in stage since the rebuild and have put about 25 slow miles on the bike over several days, just riding it slowly around in the neighborhood at 10-25 mph. I had been keeping the headlamp on during this time. I recently stalled the bike and could not get it started only to find out the battery was weak/dead. After sitting for several minutes the battery regained just enough power to get it started. When I got back home I put the battery on a charger. The battery is now reading 6.5v sitting on a full charge. When I let the bike idle for 10-15 minutes it charges up 8.6v on the multimeter. This is without the headlamp on. Once I turn the headlamp on the voltage starts to drop very quickly. I am assuming the headlamp was the cause of the battery losing it's charge. The question's I have is 8.6v a normal charge while at idle? And how can I keep the battery from losing it's charge with the headlamp on?
Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
~Aaron

Whats the ammeter say?---Nothing,you have to look at it.
I would start by adjusting the third brush to get the ammeter to show slight charge with lights on at at an average riding rpm,then go from there.Your battery is significantly undersize(I have same set-up) to original so it will discharge faster during discharge conditions,low speed with lights on.
Have fun
Tom

[littlejohn]

Hi Aaron.
I helped another guy out with some 1947 Chief electrical issues recently. Have a look at "47 indian generator and cutout issues" under the elecrical section of the forum. It might help you.
To help you even more, could you tell me exactly how and where you are reading the 8.6v on the multimeter i.e. do you have the multimeter leads directly acroos the battery terminals, or the red lead on the generator output or the cutout relay/ voltage regulator output and the black lead on the frame? Also are you usuing a cutout relay or a vo;tage regulator on your bike? The cutout relay is a long rectanglar thingy on top of your generator casing. If it's a voltage regulator it is larger and almost square.
The reason I ask is because if you are measuring from cutout relay/voltage regulator output and getting 8.6v, you may well have a poor ground from your generator to the frame. The resistance of the poor earth will increase your voltage reading. Measure the voltage across the battery terminals. If that reads about 6.5v then you have a grounding problem. Put an earth strap from your genny case to the frame or engine.
Another way to get 8.6v is if you have the cutout relay connections the wrong way around. This is easy to do by putting on the cutout relay backwards i.e. 180 degrees out. You need to take the cover off the relay and look for the terminal that connects to the points. This is the "batt" terminal and it connects to the rest of the bikes wiring. The other terminal connects to the generator output.
Hope this helps.
littlejohn.

[agreeneone]

Thanks for the suggestions with this issue. I'm not sure what headlamp I have now but I do have a 6V motorcycle lamp on the way. I am getting the voltage readings from the battery wires connected to the terminals. I installed a NOS cutout relay on the generator. I checked the wiring at it appears to be connected correctly on the cutout with the green wire connected to the ear and the black wire connected on the bottom to the generator. I will check my ground and also check out the suggested electrical section forum. I really appreciate all the help!

[gharper]

You are enjoying the inherent shortcomings of the Autolite GAS model generating system. In addition, you may also have a headlight that is drawing too much power.

The 8.6 volts at the battery tells me 2 things, maybe too small of a battery but mostly the generator is overcharging with the lights off and undercharging with the lights on. Normally, a 3 brush system will be in the high 7's to low 8 volt range. Remember, adjusting the 3rd brush will increase or decrease the current output of the generator which will remain relatively constant, regardless of load. There is absolutely NO voltage regulation with a 3 brush system, other than the battery acting like a sponge and absorbing the excess voltage, burning it off in the form of heat and gas. Do this for very long and the battery will get cooked, sealed batteries cannot vent.

So, I've said it many times before and I'll say it again: Convert to a 2 brush regulator and install an accurate voltage regulator. This will allow the generator charge rate to be continuously adjusted to meet changing loads and keep the battery at a near constant voltage. It will eliminate under and over charging problems and opens the door to all kinds of modern batteries, many of which cannot be used with a 3 brush generator as they are very sensitive to high voltage inputs.

I'm not trying to push my stuff on you, but here is a link to my web site: http://www.splitdorfreg.com/ Click on the tab" Technical Info" and read up on 3 brush generator operation to get a better understanding of the operation. Then the "Autolite" tab for details on the 2 styles of regulators I make for the Autolite generators that were used on Indians.

If you plan to ride your bike much, this is the way to go,it will save lots of problems!

Good Luck!
Gene Harper

[Skirted]

You are enjoying the inherent shortcomings of the Autolite GAS model generating system. In addition, you may also have a headlight that is drawing too much power.

The 8.6 volts at the battery tells me 2 things, maybe too small of a battery but mostly the generator is overcharging with the lights off and undercharging with the lights on. Normally, a 3 brush system will be in the high 7's to low 8 volt range. Remember, adjusting the 3rd brush will increase or decrease the current output of the generator which will remain relatively constant, regardless of load. There is absolutely NO voltage regulation with a 3 brush system, other than the battery acting like a sponge and absorbing the excess voltage, burning it off in the form of heat and gas. Do this for very long and the battery will get cooked, sealed batteries cannot vent.

So, I've said it many times before and I'll say it again: Convert to a 2 brush regulator and install an accurate voltage regulator. This will allow the generator charge rate to be continuously adjusted to meet changing loads and keep the battery at a near constant voltage. It will eliminate under and over charging problems and opens the door to all kinds of modern batteries, many of which cannot be used with a 3 brush generator as they are very sensitive to high voltage inputs.

I'm not trying to push my stuff on you, but here is a link to my web site: http://www.splitdorfreg.com/ Click on the tab" Technical Info" and read up on 3 brush generator operation to get a better understanding of the operation. Then the "Autolite" tab for details on the 2 styles of regulators I make for the Autolite generators that were used on Indians.

If you plan to ride your bike much, this is the way to go,it will save lots of problems!

Good Luck!
Gene Harper

I did Genes converison last year on my 48 and its a Godsend if you want to ride without being strapped fighting charging problems, worrying about running lights, and/or a breakdown out on the road. My 48 is the only bike I have so it sees some decent road time. I'll go out on the limb and say charging system problems are probably a big factor on why people may not ride their bike as often. Its not that you can't get the original systems working, its more the maintenance to keep them functioning that is a pain and takes the fun out of riding. These bikes require enough maintenance as it is to keep reliable and if you can eliminate a weak link the charging system, the money spent to do it is a pittance. I now run a 18AH Shorai Lithium sealed battery with no issues.

[agreeneone]

This is very helpful information!

[Coolbreeze]

Gene,
Do you have a voltage regulator that works on a Bosch VW 6v generator? I converted to the Bosch in the late '60s or early '70s. It has run well for years, but now no one can figure out how to get it to charge properly.
George

[gharper]

No George, I don't have a Bosch regulator, just Splitdorf and Autolite.

gene

[dommi7]

George,
What regulator are you using? The Bosch generator I have uses a mechanical regulator (coils with points).
Ralph

Gene,
Do you have a voltage regulator that works on a Bosch VW 6v generator? I converted to the Bosch in the late '60s or early '70s. It has run well for years, but now no one can figure out how to get it to charge properly.
George