Wire routing - how's it done?

[pisten-bully]

Can anyone show me how the wiring should be done in two places, front fender light and rear tail light, as they exit the fenders? I've seen it done a bunch of different ways and I can't seem to locate any good photos of how it would have been done originally in Springfield. I mean I can do it like some others I've seen but I want to duplicate the original setup. Thanks!
rear_wires.jpgfront wire.jpg

[tomfiii]

look up "Indian Motorcycle Group" on Flicker, generally they are all pretty close,with connection bolted to headlight mount and connections in rear just floating.

[pisten-bully]

Thanks Tom, I guess I should re-state my question. I know how other Indians are wired, I've seen a whole bunch and they don't agree.
I am wondering what is "correct"? For example, up front, is it like the example seen in a museum in Springfield, MA (see photo)? Is it like the example seen in Jerry Hatfield's book (on a restoration) with a connector mounted to the headlamp bracket? Or is it like one of the three other methods I've seen incorporating something of everything, including the connector mounted to the headlamp bracket but going astray from there?

And for the rear connectors, even though there's 1300 photos in the Flicker collection that Tom suggested, and even though I'm a patient man willing to look through that many photos, I really don't think I'm going to find what I'm looking for there... nobody takes a close-up picture of that area of the motorcycle.

So, what's the deal here? I figure a couple things might be going on to explain why nobody has replied to this thread:
1) nobody is really sure what's correct.
2) nobody cares
3) nobody is reading this forum
4) I've got bad breath or something
5) nobody who is reading this topic has a digital camera and can upload a photo

I don't know, perhaps one way to find out is to wire it the way I think is correct, then have it judged, and then find out if I did it wrong. Then, I can inquire of the judges: "How do you know?" " Show me some proof."

Just looking for help, that's all. Thanks.
'46 Spfld Museum.jpg

[pisten-bully]

And furthermore .... if it's seen on a bike, that doesn't necessarily mean it's correct. Look at this Indian, for example (see photos). It's a very nice Chief, no doubt about that. As you can see, the rear wiring as it exits the fender is floating, simply connected at the two bullets by a single connector. And because this is such a nice example of a Chief do we assume this is the correct way to wire into the taillight harness? Maybe. But if the goal is to be correct ( AMCA ) then look at another photo of the bike and see that attention to detail is not followed through all the way on the bike. Compare the tanks emblems to the frame, they don't match up for years, and so then decide if other aspects, such as the wiring, are period correct.

Does anyone see what I'm talking about? I can look all day at nicely restored Indian Chiefs, but unless I actually see one that is factory original (and I haven't) I gotta wonder how it was done in 1940-something.

'46 rear.jpgtanks.jpg

[c.o.]

Harry, the Indian experts seem to be rather scarce at the moment. If you had a Harley question you'd likely get a fairly quick answer. That just seems to be the way it is. I dug around through some Chief pics and it appears as though you are correct. The camera just doesn't seem to get those angles. For whatever it's worth, here's a shot of a friends' '46. It's the best one I've found that sort of shows the front routing. Is it absolutely correct? I'm afraid I can't say. If you don't get any results here, you may want to try and contact Robin Markey. I'm betting he'll have your answer.

[redfred84]

It's difficult to judge from the photo angels, but Piston Bully's original photos, depicting the Black Chief are close. The front seems OK, as the fender light wire hole in the front fender appears correctly located (is this the question?). It is approx 1" above the trim, and in front of the fork. However, the rear fender shot in this series seems to show the wire hole a wee bit too low for the original fenders that I have experienced. Most of the wire holes are located slightly higher, hiden by the frame rail.
Now, who is to say that this fender is indeed mounted correctly on this bike, and is therefore showing the wire hole too low? Who is to say that these holes aren't all exactly uniform? All this hinges on years of hands on experience with original stuff. The kind of experience people like Toney Watson, and Robin Markey endured, and noted.
I have a few original bikes of this era, (one orig. paint), and with my studies, the rear fender wire hole does seem a bit low. The front seems OK from the photos. There is a plastic, or bakelite connector for the front fender light, mounted on a "P" clip, to the left (primary side) of the headlight mount for the front fender light. This is one of my favorite details on these bikes.
Sorry for the delay in responce, and the lack of photos.
RF.

[c.o.]

Or, check with Red Fred. He'll probably know.... I was gonna mention you RF but didn't want to put you on the spot!!

[pisten-bully]

Thanks Cory and Red Fred, I feel like I'm getting somewhere, but it still seems to be a bit of a "gray area". One thing is for certain, the connector in the P-clip on the headlamp mount is seen more often than not. What happens before and after that P-clip differs from machine to machine. For example, Cory's photo shows the wire in cloth or asphalt loom from the fender hole to the P-clip.... and you don't see that extra loom on all machines.

The photo I attached of the white Chief residing in the Springfield Museum collection of Indians is not really correct (or is it... it's in a museum for gosh sakes), the wire exits the fender and heads right back.... and it's inside plastic loom to boot!

Red Fred, the hole in the rear fender of the black Chief (that's mine) might be a little low indeed, but some of that is the camera angle... if you look straight on at it the hole is partially hidden by the frame. I've got no reason to think this is not the original fender for this bike, indeed every other mounting hole is lined up perfectly and the straight-shooter who sold me this bike told me it was original (he had no reason to mislead me, but memories can fail I suppose).

So I guess I'll do the best I can to make it what I think I've seen as original!
Thanks for the help!

[tomfiii]

flicker photos

Hi, my flicker name is EYEFLASH I've got some close ups "46-'48 & 50's ,but the front P clamp is hard to see on some.

[pisten-bully]

Hi, my flicker name is EYEFLASH I've got some close ups "46-'48 & 50's ,but the front P clamp is hard to see on some.

WOW! is all I can say, those are awesome photos, thanks for sharing Tomfiii! You've got a great eye for detail and I bookmarked your collection so I can go back again and again.

Now.... you don't own all those bikes, do you????

[c.o.]

The photo I attached of the white Chief residing in the Springfield Museum collection of Indians is not really correct (or is it... it's in a museum for gosh sakes)

I, for the most part do not trust "correctness" when it come to musuems. I've seen quite a few machines over the years that were represented as "original" or restored from original parts and for the average "joe" that doesn't know any better that may fly. But anyone with a little knowledge can spot it from a mile away. I would venture to say that from what I can tell from the Wheels Through Time museum you could find some truth there. Sorry to sidetrack and I hope you get it figured out. I should mention that the online club library has some judging reference lit (at least for the early stuff that I was researching) but since it's not working right now, that won't help you at the moment.

[phillie]

I posted a link to my pictures in the photos section. Indian Day, Rhinebeck, Hebron maybe something useful in there?

[pisten-bully]

Phil, I had actually cruised your photos before.... those are really quality shots. So I'm going back to them to see what I can see.... the areas I'm looking for with close-ups seem to be overlooked by most photographers... the area above the battery and behind the seat in particular is not a very exciting subject to shoot (even if you manage to see through all the fringe adorning some seats)! I also sent you a PM.

I think Cory also hit on the subject of why a group like AMCA is important. Somebody needs to set and keep a standard of what's faithful to an original design, otherwise without a standard, terms like "original" and "restoration" are meaningless.

[gsottl]

Thant is what the requested wiring-details look like on my quite original early 1948 Chief - I would say the cables on this bike are original.detail.jpgIMG_0348.jpg

[pisten-bully]

Thant is what the requested wiring-details look like on my quite original early 1948 Chief - I would say the cables on this bike are original.

That helps, thanks!

Couldn't help but notice one thing, the cross member just ahead of the rear fender on your Chief is straight across, while it was my understanding that 1948 Chiefs had the curved cross member (see photo) So, maybe it was because your Chief was built for export or, as you mentioned, early 1948's had the old style cross member?

'46 rear.jpg