1st start in 30 yrs questions

[hoghead]

I'm a new menber and want to start a newly acquired 55kh that appears to only need a new battery. I don't want to harm the engine with lack of lube especially on cam lobes. I don't think the bike has been run for 20 to 30 years. I've thought of filling crankcase with oil and sloshing it around then draining it out to get some oil on lobes. Any suggestions will be appreciated-

[duffeycycles]

change the oil, take the plugs out, remove the return line and kick and kick and kick etc.clean oil will eventually come out the return--install line -start-no matter what you do it may have rust inside and self destroy if it is not rebuilt first

[sirhrmechanic]

If it has not run for 30 years, your rings will be stuck solid. The pistons will chew themselves up and may well break rings. A bike that might otherwise have a fine engine will end up with a nasty, smoky and probably in-need-of-rebuild engine within minutes. DO NOT start that bike yet.

First, drain all the fluids and inspect. Look for bits of metal or babbitt (bearing shell material) that may indicate internal issues. See if you can kick the engine w. plugs out enough to bring up oil pressure with new oil in it. Get it circulating.

Next, do both a compression check and a leak-down check. Gauges are necessary in everyone's toolkit. Compression will give you some indication of how your engine is... but it's the leak-down that matters. Buy a leak down gauge. It will tell you if the rings or valves or both need work. But I can guarantee you that in a bike that has sat for 30 years, the rings will have issues.

Second, pull the heads and pull the jugs off the pistons. Clean the cylinder walls and run a glaze breaker on the cylinders. Remove the pistons from their pins and soak the rings clean and make sure they are free in their grooves. They will likely be glued solid with dried oil and crud and carbon. Don't break the fragile cast-iron rings while removing them. Soak in laquer thinner (paint gun cleaner) until the varnish, crud, etc. frees up the rings and then gently remove the rings. Clean under the rings (in the grooves.) Use a wood dowel to clean the grooves (sharpened in a pencil sharpener or with a razor blade) so as to not scratch the pistons. If you do break rings (or if they are in bad shape), put in new rings. If the rings and pistons are bad, put in new rings/pistons on an over-bored cylinder. This is cheap in comparison to not doing it. But often on an older bike, the rings, pistons, etc. will be serviceable w. just cleaning. Certainly, they will run a long time unless in appalling shape.

next, pull the valves out. Clean stems and heads. Re-lap. They will likely have rust on them from sitting and the seating surfaces may be carboned up or rusty. Even if the stems are a bit loose, as long as the valves are clean and lapped into their seats, they will not cause damage.

Reassemble engine w. new head gaskets! Do not reuse 30 year old head gaskets. They will be compressed and hard and will blow.

Take tank off. Clean out WELL. There will be rust, crud, varnish, etc. in it. You don't want to introduce that into your engine or carb.

Clean carb. Make sure float is not stuck. If it's full of old varnish and gas that float may stick and dump gas all over your bike and cause a fire hazard. Make sure your fuel shut-off is working.

Start the bike and then change the oil immediately while still hot. If aluminum head, re-torque after its first hot run. Recommend regular (200 mile) oil changes for the first 1000 or so miles (or every few months.) Change the oil hot so it carries out as much crud as possible with it.

Properly re-commissioned, 'old' engines often have decades and miles of life in them. If you throw gas and a battery in it, you will run the risk of tearing up what would otherwise be a good engine.

I know you want to hear it run. It's my first urge too. But a couple of weekends and just a few bucks worth of parts will not only ensure that when you DO start it, it will be in good shape... but it will also give you confidence and peace of mind when it comes to knowing what IS in the engine. Because otherwise, it will always be a mystery and you won't really know what's going on inside. That's never a comfortable feeling when riding down the road!

Hope this helps... and believe me, I know what I am talking about. Here's what we do www.vintagegaragevt.com When people fail to recommission these engines correctly, the bill starts at $30 - $40K! And I see the damage all the time from 'gas and battery' treatment.

Cheers,

Sirhr

[TimR]

Sirhr, You have a very interesting method for putting a motor back into service after it has been dormant. If the motor was put away without an oil change the oil be contaminated with acids and the acids would probably etch and corrode the roller bearings. I would think that the cases should be split and all bearings inspected and replaced as needed. A little more peace of mind for a motor that some one can put many miles on. Tim

[sirhrmechanic]

Tim:

Right you are. And to the OP, please take my comments as the minimum of things to do. While the jugs are off, you need to look down into the engine and any indications of rust, corrosion, etc. are an indication to pull the engine out and split the cases.

When we recommission an engine, the sump comes off. The bearing caps come off and the babbitt is inspected for cracking and embedding. The harmonic balancer (which has more parts than an entire Harley engine itself) comes apart and is rebuilt. Oil pump is checked, water pump rebuilt and the water passages are cleaned out of scale and lime. "Our" engines have no oil filters, so the traps in the crankshaft (which serves as a centrifugal filter) have to be cleaned. Sump, inside of engine, oil lines, etc. all cleaned and flushed. Engine is Pre-lubed with oil under pressure with the sump off so that we can 'watch' oil flow around the bearings and look for oil pressure issues, etc. We go to some very extensive lengths on these engines to recommission. It's almost like a rebuild, but most of the 'work' is simply cleaning. Sometimes, you have to rebuild anyway because of what you find. But occasionally, we find one that is just fine, but would not have lived long without full recommissioning both top end and bottom end.

For a bike, checking rings/top end and the other items I outlined are the bare, bare minimum before starting. But Tim is right on. If there is any indication that the bike was put away with nasty old oil, the cases should DEFINITELY come apart. The old oil will be full of acids and combustion by-products. And after 30 years, it will be more like glue than a lubricant.

It's more work and more cleaning, but often very inexpensive parts. Mainly gaskets, roller bearings, etc. Not expensive full rebuild with machining, pins, main bearings, etc. And you will know what's in your engine when you are done and have full confidence in it.

One thing to keep in mind is that old bikes (or old cars) were rarely put away for 30 years because someone simply left them and forgot about them. They got put away, because something failed or broke and noone got around to fixing the problem or the problem was too expensive to fix at the time. So the vehicle sat. Whatever killed the machine in the first case will still be lurking. You should look for that problem, as well. It's sometimes a fun bit of detective work.

Thanks, Tim, for expanding on my thoughts. You are right on. Remember that cleaning is cheap. Rebuilds are expensive. And peace of mind is priceless!

Cheers,

Sirhr

[hoghead]

Sirhr and Tim, you're great. I can't thank you enough for your kind input. I've done enough engine work in the past, on cars, to appreciate your expertise. I won't try starting this at this point.

[Coolbreeze]

I

Reassemble engine w. new head gaskets! Do not reuse 30 year old head gaskets. They will be compressed and hard and will blow.

Head gaskets??? This is a KH. It don't need no stinkin' gaskets!

[Chris Haynes]

When I got my first K the heads were off. I spent months searching for gaskets. Every dealer I contacted looked in their parts book and told me they were obsolete. Finally a guy told me about a guy he knew who raced K's and had lots of parts. I went to him and told him I needed a pair of head gaskets. He laughed at me. I said no that I really need them. he then said you are serious aren't you? I said yes. Then he reached up on a shelf and grabbed a can of aluminum spray paint and tossed it to me. He said here are your gaskets. That is when i learned that K's never had head gaskets.

[sirhrmechanic]

Head gaskets??? This is a KH. It don't need no stinkin' gaskets!

Learn something new every day! Thanks! Everything I work on has head gaskets... so it's just a natural assumption. I'll tuck that one in the memory banks for sure.

Cheers,

Sirhr

[Rubone]

K series isn't alone with no head gaskets, they were preceded by WRs.