Shovelhead ID

[Neil74]

Hi, I looked at a 72 Shovel yesterday and I have a few questions about it's originality. The numbers looked good and matched the Michigan title, but there was a 4 that had a round punched hole with what looked to be a 2 showing as once being under it.It also had the number boss on the left case like an early bike, no numbers here but the pad did look a bit thinner than I've seen. The heads showed as 6 66 and 7 66 above the sparkplug holes. Wouldn't let me take pictures and the man waiting to see if I wanted it said he'd buy it with no problem, so i passed and wished him well.

[Sargehere]

There was some funny stuff going on at the MoCo on the factory floor in 1971-72. Labor unrest, which resulted in a lot of irregularities, even sabotage of completed bikes (report of a little wrench found in the bottom of a customer's transmission on a warranty teardown, comes to mind). What you report doesn't sound too far fetched. After changing the VIN system in 1970, and numbers going on the rt. case, the left case still had the number boss, and it was left blank. It's not too far to believe you could still see one in 1972. The numbering was done by a human. Even the MoCo made mistakes. I wouldn't have passed on this one, if I wanted it, I don't think, but I wasn't there eyeballing it in person.
The casting numbers of '66 could still have shown up on '72 motor, too. Just my two centavos.

[Neil74]

Thanks Sarge, There were too many things that all added up to a gut feeling of get the hell out of here and don't look back. No remorse if it pans out like always there will be a half dozen cleaner machines around the corner

[Speeding Big Twin]

Neil, the bike below was in a book at one of my local libraries and my notes tell me it was The Big Book of Harley-Davidson by Thomas C Bolfert. I haven't recorded anything about it apart from that it looks to be a 72 model and it has a VIN boss on the left case. I've seen the VIN boss on the left case of several 71 models but not yet on a 73. Eric

[Neil74]

Yes looks like her, an there is the number boss. Oh well probably walked away from a 2500.00 roller with everything on it an legit, happens

[Rubone]

That photograph is proof of nothing. Most advertising shoots were done well in advance of the new year model and generally were of the previous years bike with cosmetic changes to make it appear as the new model. I have never personally seen a VIN boss on a '72, however I know there are some '70 and '71 models without one! I did personally change several sets of cases under warranty due to loose left bearing carriers and the replacement cases were the newest style with a different casting technique for the case bushing.
Robbie

[bmh]

The heads with the -66 casting numbers were used through 74 I believe. All short reach plug heads have those numbers. As for the four.....just as with any other bike H-D made, nothing left the factory with an over-stamp on the serial number. Vehicle serial numbers were taken very seriously, especially under the new federal mandates imposed in 70. the same number in the same font should be stamped on both the left engine case in front of the front tappet and also on the left of the frame on a boss on the steering head The four used in the early 70's was a closed top, very straight and triangular. Eights were two inverted triangles. Ones and fives were slanted (think italic ). Sixes and nines were odd shaped made of curved and straight segments, a different stamp was used for each. Twos ended with a little curl up in the head. there should be a clear five pointed star punched in at each end of the number.

[Rubone]

nothing left the factory with an over-stamp on the serial number.

Yes but not quite!
There was a whole run of engines mis-stamped that were factory re-stamped by over-stamping the original number with a line through it and a new number below.('73?, remember them from my shop mechanic days but not sure on the date). This was well documented.
Robbie
PS, the disclaimer is for Eric!

[Neil74]

The 4 struck me as odd, but the rest of the numbers looked good. Seems strange to screw with one number an then leave it.I owned a 1975 FXE, it had one set of numbers on the motor with a line run thru it and my vin numbers stamped below them. I bought that machine new from Fletchers Harley Davidson when they was in down town NPR.

[portagepan]

My 72 FLH is exactly like bmh described. 4's, stars, triangle eights on the front right top of cases. No boss on other side between timing hole and case stud.
Mike

[bmh]

I know the old number boss was still on the right case on 71 production models. Have seen a few over the years with the original VIN sanded off the left case and a bogus number punched into the old boss.

I have personally never seen one of these strike through VIN's and would be very suspicious if I ran into one. My general rule is that if I feel in the slightest that a VIN may not be 100% legit, I walk away. What type of documentation exists on the strike through VIN's? Does it list the affected units by VIN? It would be real easy for someone of less moral fiber to take a chisel and strike through a VIN an punch in a new one, far to easy indeed. Not even sure why the Fed DOT would allow a mfg to do such a thing. The whole idea behind standardized VIN's was to prevent fraud.

[Rubone]

Brian,
The strike through VINs were indeed done at the factory. I set up several new bikes directly out of the shipping crates that had them. They are well documented as well. I believe at one time a list existed (possibly it was even a service bulletin) of all the affected units. I guess H-D didn't want to go to the trouble of replacing cases or engines and the Feds let them do it! Would I buy one, no, just because! But then I wouldn't buy anything H-D built after about '68! And even that is a little too archaic technology wise!
Robbie

[Neil74]

Brian, make no mistake, I'm giving you proof positive. I bought my 1975 FXE, new from Fletchers Harley Davidson in 1975 with one set of numbers- aline thru the numbers, and my Title and registration numbers stamped right beneath the others. For what it's worth ,it was explained to me that the workers were on strike and management assembled a bunch of machines with the motors in the wrong frames. Rather than disassemble them the motor numbers were altered. Their reasoning was the title went with the frame, the motor number was just a serial number that matched. Right or wrong.... who knows, but that is how it was explained to me when I purchased mine new.

[vph-d]

I saw several strike thru machines come out of the crate in about 1979. Keep in mind the motor was just a component of the frame after 1970. I wouldn't have bought one either.
VPH-D

[bmh]

I do not disbelieve you guys, I have heard the story enough to know it must have some truth behind it. It was most surely easier to do it that way than switch out motors that didn't match frames. I was curious if anyone had the documentation on it. I don't think saying I know a few guys who........ is gonna help someone out with the judges, or the police for that matter. Here in PA well into the 90's at least, If the Man found that the motor and frame numbers on your steed didn't match then you had some explaining to do and they might have very well impounded your machine until the matter was resolved to their satisfaction. I have witnessed that exact type of thing happen to an acquaintance from out of state. Took him almost a year to get his machine back.