Low oil temperature on newly build 74'' Shovelhead engine

[Pete Engelman]

I have about 2500 miles on my new 74'' engine, I recently rode into south BC where it was about 100 deg F. My oil temp runs about 140F and when I cover the oil cooler it runs about 150F. S&S cases, S&S heads, HD flywheels, Ultima oil pump, 8.5:1 cast pistons and a Leineweber L3S camshaft with points ignition and drag pipes
The engine stats are as follows: My side play between flywheels is 0.003'' my CP rollers are standard 0.250'' I plug fit 0.2504'' which were very tight so my roller clearance is 0.0004" using the standard 0.250'' rollers, I blew through the pinion after the flywheels were torqued with my breath easily then filled the pinion shaft with oil and blew it through with my air compressor at about 30 psi and it gurgled through easily. I did have to torque the flywheels to ~240 ft/lbs to install the locks as one notch back would have been under torqued. I cut the shoulders down on my rocker shafts to have a rocker arm end play between 0.004'' and 0.006'' My pinion shaft to bushing clearance is 0.0019''
I cut my oil filter apart after I had 1000 miles on it, there was no metal or bronze from the thrust washers or bushings. There was no filings in the oil tank everything is clean. Covering the oil cooler brings the temp up to ~150F. Has anyone had this issue before? I'd like it around 220F
Pete::::::::;;;;;;;

[T. Cotten]

I have about 2500 miles on my new 74'' engine, I recently rode into south BC where it was about 100 deg F. My oil temp runs about 140F and when I cover the oil cooler it runs about 150F. S&S cases, S&S heads, HD flywheels, Ultima oil pump, 8.5:1 cast pistons and a Leineweber L3S camshaft with points ignition and drag pipes
The engine stats are as follows: My side play between flywheels is 0.003'' my CP rollers are standard 0.250'' I plug fit 0.2504'' which were very tight so my roller clearance is 0.0004" using the standard 0.250'' rollers, I blew through the pinion after the flywheels were torqued with my breath easily then filled the pinion shaft with oil and blew it through with my air compressor at about 30 psi and it gurgled through easily. I did have to torque the flywheels to ~240 ft/lbs to install the locks as one notch back would have been under torqued. I cut the shoulders down on my rocker shafts to have a rocker arm end play between 0.004'' and 0.006'' My pinion shaft to bushing clearance is 0.0019''
I cut my oil filter apart after I had 1000 miles on it, there was no metal or bronze from the thrust washers or bushings. There was no filings in the oil tank everything is clean. Covering the oil cooler brings the temp up to ~150F. Has anyone had this issue before? I'd like it around 220F
Pete::::::::;;;;;;;

Sounds serious, Pete.

Low temps could reduce your fuel efficiency!

As an arm-chair engineer, I'd say ditch the drag pipes.

(Posted sincerely....)

....Cotten

[duffeycycles]

Use a digital pyrometer & compare to other shovels to see if your gage is working

[larry]

What is special about 220F?

[joe fxs fxr]

My 79 1200 shovelhead ran about 140 oil temp. I checked it with a industrial glass thermometer and an IR gun and they were both about the same. I thought it would be higher too. I have tape across my oil cooler.

My 82 80" shovelhead runs about 210 but that's a fresh rebuild.

[Pete Engelman]

Thanks guys

[Pete Engelman]

I just built this engine from scratch. I am just accepting that I have a free running engine that doesn't make much heat. I did use copper head gaskets which will transfer the heat, I believe the S&S cases and S&S heads may wick the heat away better than stock aluminium and the Leineweber L3S cam also may have something to do with it. If it was serious it would have blown up already. Gonna ride and enjoy and if I encounter a problem deal with it at that time
Pete::::::::::::;;;;;;;;;;;;

[T. Cotten]

...I did use copper head gaskets which will transfer the heat,...

I must ask, Pete,..

Transfer the heat where?

To the cylinder?

Thanks in advance,

....Cotten
PS: Soaking heat into the cylinder must not be a concern, if you can't get your oil tank where you like it!

[joe fxs fxr]

On a shovelhead forum a guy mentioned low oil temperature as a symptom, but didn't explain of what. I'll report what he answers to my question.

[T. Cotten]

Do you have a real exhaust handy, Pete?

Wouldn't it be great to know,... ... .. !

...Cotten
PS: Please try to log your miles-per-gallon before-and-after too; Efficiency may increase with temp.

[chuckthebeatertruck]

I must ask, Pete,..

Transfer the heat where?

To the cylinder?

Thanks in advance,

....Cotten
PS: Soaking heat into the cylinder must not be a concern, if you can't get your oil tank where you like it!

Ah, the mythology of copper head gaskets comes roaring out.

As Cotten is pointing out, the first rule of thermodynamics is that heat always moves from hot to cold.

Cylinder heads are MUCH hotter than cylinders. So, if you believe in the myth. . .you believe you’re transferring heat from head to cylinder. But, a lot of guys get this backwards and think they are pulling heat from a cylinder. They are not, and physics tells us the truth.

With that knowledge. . .

WHY would you want to “transfer” heat to the cylinder?

Our goal is to REMOVE heat from the cylinder and specifically to remove heat from the piston via the rings (yes they seal and transfer heat.

Secondly, over long periods, copper creeps. This is a result of extreme temperature variations across the head. the more heat you add and the bigger the head, the worse this gets.

Composite gaskets were introduced more than 80 years ago to counteract this tendency at the head and cylinder join. In most cases, copper is actually near the same cost as a composite gasket, yet manufacturers generally chose composites as they became available. HD forgot this lesson around 1982 and tried using 045 copperhead gaskets in ironheads to lower compression and meet regs. They had a lot of failures from gasket creep, specifically oil drain leaks.

you also hear repeatedly about “blown” copper head gaskets on flatheads. There’s a strong correlation between thermodynamics and the gasket blowing. Odd how so many of these problems are “corrected” by using a composite gasket or a lot of coppercote.

all that said, copper works with care. Let’s just not assign copper head gaskets mythic heat transfer properties. They won’t do anything FOR your motor, but they sure can be a PITA compared to composite.

Personally, I’ve rarely had a bike run more than 200 degrees on the oil, even on big inch strokers pushed very hard.

im much more concerned about head temperature.

it honestly sounds like the motor in question is simply fresh and using well matched/fitted components and therefore producing little secondary heat from friction. I’d not worry at all unless head temps spike or mpg changes noticeably.

[T. Cotten]

Where does most heat exit the motor, Folks?

....Cotten

[T. Cotten]

Where does most heat exit the motor, Folks?

....Cotten

I guess we will never know, Folks,...

So let me ask another question: What would be the optimum tank temp, and why?

Presumeably we want it warm enough to flash off water from combustion, especially at low ambient temps.
But is it also to allow a fast feed from the tank? Viscosity varies, and its molasses until warm. Maybe that's how the motor warms up: lack o' oil?

So what's the point of return line coolers? (Thanks in advance even when there is no reply,)

....Cotten

[duffeycycles]

155 deg for water removal....warm the motor vs short runs

[T. Cotten]

155 deg for water removal....warm the motor vs short runs

Uh Oh, Pete!

You need another five degrees.

Ditching the drags should do it.

.....Cotten