Ping, ping and ping

[ryan]

Here I go again with more darn questions about my bike. I was riding today and my bike started spark knocking at half to full throttle, the temp was about 92°F. I did a night run and it sparked knocked at full throttle.
I static timed the bike about 500 miles ago and re checked it several times. The gas is 93 octane in a 69flh with sidecar.
I will check the timing again tomorrow, but was kind of worried about temperature as I am not running an oil cooler, but I really think I should.

[RichO]

Shovels need an oil cooler! Aftermarket took care of the first couple of years till the factory caught on. Flh's are really prone to pinging. With a sidecar you really have the load on. High octane is a must. Timing is a little tricky with the self advance timer.

[tomfiii]

When was the last time you changed advance springs?

[ryan]

When was the last time you changed advance springs?

I honestly cannot remember when I changed them, but I can get close, The bike had been in storage for about 9 years with no miles and they were changed about 20k before that.
Should I go ahead and order a set? Where and which type to get? Any American made suppliers?

[RichO]

Really hard to find. Awhile back my HD dealer went on line with the part number and I found some back east in another dealer obsolete stuff. V-Twins are weak and don't waste your money. I'll look but I don't think I have any left.

[ryan]

So I take tjere are no springs from GM or Ford? Lol

[pan620]

Will 1970 up springs work?

[RichO]

1970 springs are for a cone head, totally different.

[ryan]

I reset the points and timed my bike again with the flywheel line in the middle of the window, the pre ignition is still there on mid to hard throttle before the bike has had time to get hot, still running Sunoco 93 octane.
I am going to back the timing off closer to the front of the window, if this doesn't work, going to dissect the distributor.

ps: Any good advise on an oil cooler to run? I have some old school oil coolers that are not turbulent, so I think I should stick to a modern one. I am wondering how many row, size etc. I do have a new manual bypass valve.
Thank you.

[Rubone]

H-D always tried to use lower compression for sidecar rigs. Other than that a timer with an adjustable advance curve would help, factory auto advance is too quick. Dual plug heads help as well for a flame front from both sides overcoming some of the Hemi drawbacks..

[ryan]

H-D always tried to use lower compression for sidecar rigs. Other than that a timer with an adjustable advance curve would help, factory auto advance is too quick. Dual plug heads help as well for a flame front from both sides overcoming some of the Hemi drawbacks..

Harley did not have stiffer springs for the auto advance, does anyone offer them? I wish someone would come out with an Evolution, cylinder head design that looks like a shovelhead, I could run flat top pistons and have more power.
What cylinder heads do you recommend, STD? I know S&S are out of the question. Do panheads run cooler than shovelheads? They have panheads with shovelhead intake and exhaust ports.

[RichO]

I run Lockhart coolers on the '67 FLH and the '81 FXB. Came stock on the '81 added on the '67. I always felt Shovel run warmer. I never run the covers in winter because it not the cold out here and never bothered with a thermostat but that's just me. Never had the '81 ping but once in a blue moon the '67 under heavy load on big hills the FLH could.

[ryan]

I run Lockhart coolers on the '67 FLH and the '81 FXB. Came stock on the '81 added on the '67. I always felt Shovel run warmer. I never run the covers in winter because it not the cold out here and never bothered with a thermostat but that's just me. Never had the '81 ping but once in a blue moon the '67 under heavy load on big hills the FLH could.

I think a lot of my issue is in the timer. The idle will jump up about 400 rpm for a while, then I will idle it down and it will be ok for a bit, then the idle drop too low to run.T
I have a lockhart cooler laying on the shelf, but it is kind of beat up so I am still looking for one to fit around my police shifter and sidecar mounts.
Thank you!

[BigLakeBob]

Ryan,

You never mention if you are advancing the cam by hand when checking timing at the advanced mark. It sounds like you are too advanced. I know your engine is together, but when assembling a new motor I use a travel indicator on the front cylinder piston to establish the true 7/16 BTC and make a scribe mark by the timing hole to static time to later. It is a lot better then guessing center, front of center, a little behind center, etc. I am not saying a oil cooler wouldn't help, but I have been running my '69 in both hot FL weather and both hot and cold OH weather without a cooler for 54K miles and I don't seem to have a per ignition issue when the timing is correct. Good luck.

[ryan]

Ryan,

You never mention if you are advancing the cam by hand when checking timing at the advanced mark. It sounds like you are too advanced. I know your engine is together, but when assembling a new motor I use a travel indicator on the front cylinder piston to establish the true 7/16 BTC and make a scribe mark by the timing hole to static time to later. It is a lot better then guessing center, front of center, a little behind center, etc. I am not saying a oil cooler wouldn't help, but I have been running my '69 in both hot FL weather and both hot and cold OH weather without a cooler for 54K miles and I don't seem to have a per ignition issue when the timing is correct. Good luck.

Bob,
Yes, I am putting the flywheel mark in the center of the timing hole after the intake closes, advancing the cam on the timer and moving the distributor to static time it, points are set at .020" . I also timed it with cigarette cellophane and comes out to the same spot as with a bulb. The timer was working fine, but cleaned and lubed it anyway.
So now what do you suggest I do? What about timing it with a timing light? I guess I can always back it off a little at a time.

Another thread that brought up issues of heat and timing.

https://forum.antiquemotorcycle.org/bboard/showthread.php?31436-Cotten-I-moved-shovelhead-operating-temp-here&p=192658#post192658