Frame Issue!!!

[c.o.]

Well folks, the fun begins! I pulled the engine out of the frame two nights ago, it was getting a little late and the light in the shop was rather dim. I bolted the mill into the stand on the bench and called it a night. I went out last night to pull the heads off and generally start tearing it down. When I opened the shop door, there it was! I couldn't believe it and well I have to admit I was pretty bummed. It's looking like I've got a frame that was a victim of a chopper fanatic at some point in it's life. Dare I say that it was ground on and hammered upon to fit a shovelhead into it?!!! I was really hoping that I wasn't going to find big problems when I started into it but no such luck. I hadn't counted on stripping it to a bare frame! Opinions are encouraged and welcomed!!! What would you do to fix this? Thanks in advance for any thoughts.....

[Sargehere]

I see a lot of views, but no comments. I think we need more info, Cory. What motor did you pull out of it, Knuckle/Flat/Pan? What frame did you think you had, Knuckle, Wishbone, Straightleg rigid, Swingarm? What are you trying to build? Some misfittings like that can be fixed with a 3/8" plate under the rear motor mount, some need the top of the seatpost pulled up to match, some need major surgery.

[Rubone]

Lots of reasons it could be like that Cory. A previous life with cast valve covers, a stroker engine, etc. You can chop a section out and replace it without completely tearing down. You'd likely have to replace the seat post bushings. But it actually doesn't look that bad. Any other hidden mysteries though?
Robbie

[c.o.]

Sarge, it's a stock '48 pan frame that has had some misguided folk(s) work their magic/horror on it. I'm just trying to come up with the simplest fix for now until I have the time/cash to fix it properly. I know I should probably strip it right down and and do it right but it's not in the cards right now. That is why I made the cry here for help!

Robbie, after the initial shock of seeing the hole, I came to the conclusion that it could have been a lot worse. The only other problem I can see at this point with the frame is the top engine/tank mount has been hacked off and then re-welded at some point and it was a less than stellar job. When I got the bike the dash cover was off and I asked why? The guy said he never could get it to fit right and just left it off. When I went to mount it I could see why he had the trouble. The tanks wouldn't line up and there was quite a gap. So to remedy that to get the bike on the road I just tacked some tabs onto the mount to get the tanks to fit right. I can live with that for now. This hole sort of blindsided me and wasn't part of my plan! Of course a guy never knows what he's fully dealing with until these old bikes are torn apart. The job for the interim anyway isn't as bad as I was expecting. When you refer to bushings how many of them should be hiding in that tube? It appears as though instead of changing them over the years that they were possibly just driven down. With a flashlight it looks like a couple of stragglers are hiding in there. I'm going to head out to the shop with some degreaser and clean it all up and see if I can discover any other problems!

Oh, I should mention that after I saw the damage I needed to find something good, so I cleaned off the underside of the cases to find matching belly numbers!!!

Thanks for the input fellas!!

[Sargehere]

Cory, sounds like you should do no more than the minimum to keep it running at this point. Absolute minimum, of course, is "nuttin." It runs like that and you weren't even aware of the problem. But I 'speckt you won't be able to live with that, knowing about it.
So dismount the coil and oiltank and section the whole bunged-up front half of that seatpost out and fabricate a half-round insert for it: from a tube, a pipe or a piece of steel of correct thickness that you roll into a semi-circular channel. That will give you a chance to yank those previous top seatpost bushings out of there, while you're at it. Sorry to hear that gen-u-wine '48 frame was treated so badly in its life, but you'll make it right. And probably fix the top mount. Nice that you found matching line bore numbers on your motor! Good luck!

[cdndewey]

I believe there should only be one bushing in a rigid and two in a swingarm frame.

[sirhrmechanic]

Just today replaced bushing in my '46 EL frame. Only one that I could discern. Rigid. Cut w. hacksaw blade and popped out.

Someone's comment that they found bushings 'pushed down into the tube' was interesting to me. Not the 'right' way to replace these. But how expedient is that idea? I can totally see mechanics over the years simply pounding worn bushings deeper into the tube then putting in a new one. It's a brilliant (if misguided) way to get the job done w.out special tools or the time to eliminate the old bushing.

The seat post springs/bushings are pretty simple, though there are a bunch of parts down there and generally removal, cleaning and reassembly are a good idea, none of it is hard. A smooth and well-bushed seat is much nicer to ride than a sloppy one.

Cheers,

Sirhr

[c.o.]

Cory, sounds like you should do no more than the minimum to keep it running at this point. Absolute minimum, of course, is "nuttin." It runs like that and you weren't even aware of the problem. But I 'speckt you won't be able to live with that, knowing about it.
So dismount the coil and oiltank and section the whole bunged-up front half of that seatpost out and fabricate a half-round insert for it: from a tube, a pipe or a piece of steel of correct thickness that you roll into a semi-circular channel. That will give you a chance to yank those previous top seatpost bushings out of there, while you're at it. Sorry to hear that gen-u-wine '48 frame was treated so badly in its life, but you'll make it right. And probably fix the top mount. Nice that you found matching line bore numbers on your motor! Good luck!

That's some good advice there Sarge. Thank-you. I'll be on the hunt for the correct tubing! You are right about not being able to live with it, my wife said exactly the same thing!

I believe there should only be one bushing in a rigid and two in a swingarm frame.

Yup, that's what I figured. I haven't bothered to count how many bushings are in that tube but there's definitely more than two!

Just today replaced bushing in my '46 EL frame. Only one that I could discern. Rigid. Cut w. hacksaw blade and popped out.

Someone's comment that they found bushings 'pushed down into the tube' was interesting to me. Not the 'right' way to replace these. But how expedient is that idea? I can totally see mechanics over the years simply pounding worn bushings deeper into the tube then putting in a new one. It's a brilliant (if misguided) way to get the job done w.out special tools or the time to eliminate the old bushing.

The seat post springs/bushings are pretty simple, though there are a bunch of parts down there and generally removal, cleaning and reassembly are a good idea, none of it is hard. A smooth and well-bushed seat is much nicer to ride than a sloppy one.

Cheers,

Sirhr

Sirhr, I had my '42 WLA dialed in quite nicely. It pogo'd just dandy and rode like a Cadillac. I'm sold on the ride of a properly functioning pogo.

I was down to the wire last summer and had the panhead running nicely a day before I had to leave for an AMCA road run. I had noticed that there was binding on the pogo but I greased it up good and put it on my "stuff to do later list". On the trip, it periodically bound and I'd have to sit up a bit and force it back down. Well the rest of the summer got really busy and I never got to my "list" until this spring. This is when I found the hole and after a degreasing I've discovered that the thinner edges of the damage are pressed slightly inward and that would explain the binding. It should be corrected with a tubing patch, for now anyways.

Thanks again for all the input folks. It's just another reason why I'm a big fan of this club.

[46EL]

Someone told me once they had a dented in seat post tube on a rigid frame. They did not want to spend tons of money for surgery as it was just being used for a driver/bobber project. They claimed they took a smaller diameter 45 Seat post and made a thicker custom bushing and it worked? Maybe if the tube wasn't dented in too far? I don't know??

[c.o.]

That could be an idea alright. But I'm thinking that if I cut that area away then the dent (pushed in edges) will be eliminated. I should in theory be able to run the stock big twin pogo. I'll pick away at it and let you know how things turn out.

[Chris Haynes]

A shovelhead engine bolts right into a Panhead frame. No modification necessary.

[c.o.]

A shovelhead engine bolts right into a Panhead frame. No modification necessary.

Well, that blows that theory out of the water!!! I'll have to do some asking around as I've got a trail on the last three owners prior to me.

Alright, now for a question. Does anybody know offhand what the OD and ID on the center tube should be? I've done some measuring and was surprised to see it was as thin as it was.

[Chris Haynes]

Well, that blows that theory out of the water!!! I'll have to do some asking around as I've got a trail on the last three owners prior to me.

Alright, now for a question. Does anybody know offhand what the OD and ID on the center tube should be? I've done some measuring and was surprised to see it was as thin as it was.

It is thin on top, but double tubed at the bottom for strength.

[c.o.]

Thanks Chris!

[Sargehere]

Lots of reasons it could be like that Cory. A previous life with cast valve covers, a stroker engine, etc. You can chop a section out and replace it without completely tearing down. You'd likely have to replace the seat post bushings. But it actually doesn't look that bad. Any other hidden mysteries though?
Robbie

Rubone's theory actually appears the most likely at this point, Cory: cast Panhead valve covers (and /or with fins) or just taller jugs requiring more clearance in the frame than stock would explain the seat post butchery. Also, the hole in the post might easily be related to the chopping off of the top motor mount, if modifications had to be made for a non-stock motor. Done by monkeys, but done, all the same.