Dent in case above serial number 65 FLH and 65FL

[Underdoggie]

I am starting a new post on this because I did not want to high jack PortagePan's thread on the date codes on 16 interchangable rims. Anyway in that thread rbenash posted a picture of his 65flh serial number and I noticed a small dent in the case just above the serial number. Mine has that very same dent in the very same place, anybody know what it is? Here is my serial number, also to Upsrod, In that same thread you mentioned the production date of your 65 as being early, any idea when this serial number was produced? I had heard there were about 1100 FL's produced that year, would that make this one a later one?

[Chris Haynes]

I have photos os half a dozen '65 numbers. Only one has that dent.

[upsrod]

John,
I sent you a PM on the CAI site this morning.
Check your messages.

Rod

[portagepan]

I was thinking, this is about the silliest thing. So, I go out and look at mine, with an 1100's number. Sure as ****, there is that little dent. Probably just from taking them off a rack at the factory, but interesting, just the same, I guess. Maybe a little slag in the casting? Whatever. We're in this together, and we're pullin' for ya!
Mike

[cdndewey]

My buddy has his 65 apart right now, so the next time I'm over I'll have a peek at it and report back.

[portagepan]

geez louise, you can't even say s h eye tee on here anymore? Mike

[upsrod]

Chris,
Is the one you have with the dent a low number? Of the
four noted, Johns is the newest at 3328 probably built in September
of 1964.

Rod

[rbenash]

Here's mine yet again for reference. Strangely enough there's a couple other smaller marks that match as well up diagonal to the left from the 65 stamp. All odd trivia for sure. Definitely worth a half point off if you don't have them

[upsrod]

Ray,
I have those two smaller marks to the left also. I always thought
some a$$ took a BFH to it.

Rod

[Underdoggie]

Ray,
I have those two smaller marks to the left also. I always thought
some a$$ took a BFH to it.
Rod

The smaller marks are on mine as well, just not as pronoucned as the ones in Ray's picture, whatever hard object in the manufacturing process was causing this, it must have been wearing down by the time my case went thru the process. I am alwasys interested in this as my days as a process engineer at Caterpillar we were always chasing down the source of nicks and dings mostly on machined surfaces not the cast surface, unless it caused a cosmetic problem.

[T. Cotten]

I suspect the dent was in the pattern.

....Cotten

[sirhrmechanic]

Based on Cotten's close-ups, I would say that's correct. You can see the sand pattern down in the dent. If it were a 'tooling' dent where it was struck during some operation, it would be smooth inside. But you can clearly see the sand grain pattern. Likely the pattern got dented and that translated to the finished castings. You can see what looks like a raised lip from the dent.

In sand casting, you go from a master pattern (usually several assembled pieces of wood or fiber) to a sand mold to a finished casting. So a dent in the master will be exactly reproduced in the final casting (as a dent, not a raised 'pip'). These castings are machined, but not fettled, so all the sand casting impressions are visible.

Sometimes, if you look closely at a sand casting, you can see paint brush marks that are left in the mold stabilizer/release agent! I've not noticed these on HD castings, but on RR (Springfield) castings all the time. Wonder if it was a different process?

Speaks pretty well of HD's sand casting operations that they got this level of detail consistently.

Cheers, Sirhr

[rbenash]

I think Sirhr and Cotten have this nailed. I used to be involved with metal casting brifely during a job when I was still a teenager. Also spent some time in the metal casting shop in HS (yeah that was back when you had the option to pick any one of a number of vo-tech sorts of classes either as Primary track or as an elective). The dent in the master makes the most sense to me here as well given the evidence in the photos so far.

It's like that master got bumped against a bench or something. The masters I've seen were wood but were as perfect a finish as you could find. Usually made from maple or other hardwood.

Seems to have happened with one of the masters early on in production. I think mine might be the earliest photo seen so far. I'm wiling to bet earlier numbers will see it too.

Pretty sure mine was built around Aug of 64 based on the seat stamping.

[T. Cotten]

Back to the original topic,

Here I have two photos that show the major dimple over the left half of the number boss, as well as two rectangular stake marks to the far left.

Note how the dimple is shadowed beneath it by a smaller impression upon the VIN boss. This is apparent in all other submitted photos as well.

It would also be great to have un-dimpled examples to compare.

....Cotten

[Underdoggie]

You guys are pretty sharp about castings, it for sure is a dent in the pattern, as the pattern is a positive image of the part and the mold halves are a negative image. I doubt the production pattern was wood tho, it was probably an aluminum match plate. Wood patterns are mostly used for short runs as the mold sand would wear them out quickly. As far as not all 65's having the dents that is probably because there was more than one pattern. This thread has found its way to another forum (one cotton is not allowed on) and some pictures of other years besides 65 have shown the same surface defect.