49 EL Foot clutch

[vph-d]

I recently picked up a pretty stock 49 EL. The machine still has the rocker clutch and hand shift set up. Trying to ride the thing is a real trip, as I have never in 30 some years, ridden anything with a foot clutch. Talk about feeling uncoordinated!

Could some of you foot guys offer some advice? Is the pedal supposed to be stiff, or do you back off on the friction thing? Help!
VPH-D

[Rubone]

Do a search in this link. It was recently covered fairly extensively.
Robbie
http://www.caimag.com/forum/

[T. Cotten]

VPH-D!

The pedal dampener was invented when cowpaddys were roads and fording an occasional stream or quagmire meant setting the pedal in a feathering position so you could get off to the side and push.

On pavement, release it.

You'll be surprised how much easier it is to pack a passenger when you can just toe down on the heel of the pedal and it pulls itself back into engagement. Suddenly you can actually FEEL the clutch, and the springs won't fatigue from being left hung up.

Depending upon a dampener in traffic is the true origin of "suicide clutch", and the true mark of a novice where I came from.

....Cotten

[dennis49]

I totaly disagree with tom cotten's advice. what he is sugesting is where the term
"suicide clutch" came from. adjust the clutch by the harley manual,and it will serve you well.
it's worked for me for the past 40+ years.it's not hard it's just a learned skill.

[Tommo]

I go with Dennis.
I've ridden all sorts of machines for close on 50 years and the old adage, "When all else fails read the manual" is exactly right.
I've repaired gearboxes where someones foot has slipped off the pedal and the instant engagement has stripped gears in the gearbox.
Neither Indian or Harley designed their systems to work that way and if they did there would be no need for front and back pedals on the clutch rocker.

[T. Cotten]

Tommo and All!

I beg to differ in that "instant engagement" occurs MOST often when there is barely allowable feel for the engagement, because of a tight dampener.

Novices will recognize exactly what I mean:
When the operator cannot detect engagement, the result is a "launch".
Why muddy the clutch if the roads are not?

Please remember that the manuals were written for the same primitive roads that the hardware was designed to traverse, even though the footclutch survived until very modern times on machines with much more advanced powerplants, on roads that our forefathers only dreamed of.

Again I feel compelled to caution: When a rider relies upon a dampener to keep his machine out of gear in today's traffic, another accident looms over vintage motorcycling to haunt its future.

Learning to get into neutral before rolling to a stop should be the ultimate no-brainer.
If you have ever been rear-ended by a little ol' lady in a Chrysler, you'll be glad it came natural, because I bet its hard to stop a bike from spinning circles on its footgear after going through the windshield.

....Cotten

[Tommo]

If you've got the friction damper screwed up too tight you'll have no feel to your clutch but if it is correctly adjusted you'll have just as much if not more feel and control than you have with a suicide clutch.
The secret to all this is to have everything working together in harmony.
It's not the fault of the pedal if someone has installed very heavy clutch springs to stop a slipping clutch when in fact new plates should have been fitted because the old ones were oil soaked or plumb worn out.
Those that ride my 44 Harley all remark how light the clutch is and how nice and progressive the take-up is.

[T. Cotten]

Tommo!

At least reassure us that you do not sit in gear at stoplights with both feet on the ground and the pedal hung up in the air.
Not only would that tarnish my high image of you, none of us want to see you in the obituary section of this forum.

If your '44 is a 45", then you can probably stall it with the handbrake, but if the pedal gets bumped or vibrates loose on a Big Twin, it can walk you right into the middle of the intersection.

Please ride safely.

...Cotten

[flat-happy]

i have several friends that are getting into real motorcycling now and i tell them to drop the center stand and learn to operate the machine that way until they are comfortable with it---engine running---up and down through all the gears then stop the wheel with the brake. do it time after time until you are good at it. usually takes less than a day. then the only thing left to learn is taking off and stopping by letting your right foot be the last foot on the ground instead of your left---you can even practice that with a regular motorcycle. you should be comfortable with it all in less than 2 days and never look back

[Sargehere]

Foot clutch-Hand Shift Primer

I've been riding hand shift Harleys for forty years. No, I misspoke; only thirty nine. Here's a little something I wrote a while ago on another forum. I think it answers VPH-D's original question without getting off into left field:

With a hand shift Old Harley, when you put the clutch pedal (left footboard) "out" (heel down) it's designed to stay there. You stretch the coil spring on the clutch pedal over-center. It has to be physically stretched again to re-engage the clutch (to put the left toe down). That's a key point. It means you can remove your foot from the pedal, while the toe is up, and put it on the ground, if needed; to balance the bike, or sit and pull on your riding gloves, or wait for a red light to change, or whatever else needs doing, with confidence. Properly adjusted, and with a correctly assembled clutch, the pedal will not, ever, "creep" itself into engagement as was suggested above.
It simply comes in handy that, whatever else happens, you know that you can mash down with your left heel, with confidence, and disengage the engine from the transmission, and have it stay there, and the motor is not going to be a factor, trying to pull you forward.

So, you are astride the seat. You have the motor running, warmed, choke completely off, and idling, and you are in neutral, hands on both ends of the handlebar.
Right the bike off its jiffy stand and tuck it in under the left footboard with your left foot. Rest your foot atop the clutch pedal. The toe will be down, heel up, in this position.
Put your heel down and disengage the clutch. With the left hand, pull it into First Gear. It should not drag, or even protest, else the clutch plates are dragging, and that needs to be looked into.
The technique to initiating motion is to apply slight throttle whilst carefully lowering the left toe. Your right foot on the ground is holding you up. The learned co-ordination is between the left toe and right wrist. The right foot leaves the ground toes last, and goes immediately to the right footboard, and you are in motion. This comes smoothly only with a little practice.
Next is left heel down, while chopping the throttle, and progress the gear lever to Second Gear (away from you, on a '49), then left toe down again, throttle on again. You are in Second. Like wise for Third and Fourth. As you gain practice, you will not need to look down at the controls. It will come automatically.
You will notice that when pushing the gear lever away from you, you press it right, into the side of the tank, and the notches/detents are in the right places to catch the gears in sequence (and a matter of adjusting the shift lever-to-trans rod's length if you're not, and is also something that needs to be re-set every time you adjust the primary chain by loosening and adjusting the transmission fore-and-aft). When you're pulling the shifter towards you (downshifting, on a '49), pull it leftward towards your elbow to ride on the outside of its slot and catch those notches. It will come to you naturally with a little practice.

Stopping begins with the left heel down again, whilst chopping the throttle and applying the right toe (rear wheel) brake. Once again, as long as the left heel is depressing the clutch pedal, the engine is disengaged from the transmission, and you can steer, brake, and once stopped, lower the side stand if you wish, and the engine can idle. But, normally, you will want to find Neutral while the rear wheel is still turning, then you can toe-down the clutch without the motor pulling you forward. If you're still in gear after you've stopped, it may help to "rock" the bike a bit, turning the transmission with the rear drive chain, to get it back into neutral. Then you can lower the left toe again.
__________________

[Sargehere]

Foot clutch-Hand Shift Primer

Double posted. Sorry!

[vph-d]

Thanks for the feedback, guys. I checked the pedal friction, and it is really stiff. I'll loosen things up before my next ride.
VPH-D

[Chris Haynes]

Thanks for the feedback, guys. I checked the pedal friction, and it is really stiff. I'll loosen things up before my next ride.
VPH-D

Whatever you do don't loosen it so much that it can move on its own.

[Sargehere]

By design, and correctly assembled, when you throw the clutch out, heel down, the coil spring on the clutch pedal is stretched over-center, and relaxes again in the "out" position. Unless you're driving a mis-tuned, mal-adjusted pile of junk, I don't see a Harley clutch with the coil spring still installed ever "moving on its own," whether the engine is running, or not. I have no fear, sitting at a red light, engine running, in first with the clutch out. Except that I'm unnecessarily putting my throw out bearing to work, and perhaps heating up the clutch plates as they move and don't move against each other.

Now, one definition of "suicide clutch," is just to take that spring off. But I've never had the slightest hassle with an intact Big Twin Harley foot clutch pedal operating a '41-84 clutch "moving on its own."

[T. Cotten]

Whatever you do don't loosen it so much that it can move on its own.

That's your first post that has ever disappointed me, Chris.

Anyone on this forum ever drive a manual transmission car where you had to pull the pedal back with your toe?

It doesn't take a GPS to get in neutral when you approach a stop, for gawds' sakes.

My last post on this subject folks: If you NEED the sissy spring, by all means use it.

....Cotten