1963 Serial Numbers

[Fiskis]

Found a '63 Duo-Glide chassis in an European country where the dealer had to stamp the serial number into the frame to get the bike legal. The original title is there with a stated frame number just under 63FL 9500.
Anybody knows if the sequental numbers went that high in 1963, i.e. could it be a goofy number?

Regards Fiskis

[oldsouthmcy]

Fiskis,

This is not an easy one to call. In the 1960's, H-D used its odd-even security system in motor numbers. Even year motor numbers' first digit after the model letters is even and odd year motor numbers' first digit after the model letters is odd (this applies to VINs with four digits after the model letters, if the VIN has five digits it is the first two numbers after the model letters that are odd or even.

According to "The Legend Begins," there were 4300 Big Twins produced. The first 1000 would carry the VIN numbers 1000 to 1999. The second 1000 would carry the VIN numbers 3000 to 3999. The third 1000 would carry the VIN numbers 5000 to 5999. The fouth 1000 would carry the VIN numbers 7000 to 7999. The last three hundred would carry the VIN numbers 9000 to 9299.

As you can see, 9500 falls higher that 9299. The question that has to be asked is how accurate is "The Legend Begins?" In some cases it is 100% accurate and in other cases it is not. The trouble is that the number count when it was made was not checked, nor is it clear if all production was accounted for (the count was based on available monthly production reports, so were all of these present when the count was made). Further, was the count based on H-D's fiscal year of Oct to Sept. or the calendar year of Jan to Dec. In some of the years covered, it is Oct to Sept, while others are Jan to Dec but which?

David Wright publishes, in his books, 4246 Big Twins were produced, pushing the highest VIN even lower than 9500. However, there is hope to be able to verify its authenticity. Your H-D dealer can have it checked with the factory. Most records are available back to 1962. A record check can tell you if 9500 is valid for 1963 or not, even if they cannot locate 9500 specifically (if they have a record for a VIN higher than 9500 would verify that 9500 is legit). Further, if the VIN record is intact, they can also provide the true frame number (yes 1962 frames have a factory stamped number on the left side of the neck as do all 1962-1970 Big Twins, 1961 and earlier Big Twin frames are not stamped, 1971 and later have the VIN stamped into the frame, 1970s are unique to have both a VIN on the right and the frame number on the left), a stamped fork number, and a stamped transmission number.

Ironic that the VIN was stamped into the frame when the factory assigned frame number would have sufficed. Too bad the dealer did not know it existed..

[Fiskis]

The frame number on 1962-70 frames is new to me. Some JD:s of the 1920:ies have a hidden frame number under the tank, which is not the same as the motor number. Do you know if the Duo-numbers matched the case numbers?

I do not know if the Sportsters and lightweights were mixed in the same sequence, or if the FL-production was like you said. They do talk about 5-digit serials, when both first and second should be uneven for 1963. Still this bike is less than 200 numbers over 63FL9299, which could easily be explained by some strike or irregularity in the production. Well, there is still a chance to locate the engine.

Fiskis

[oldsouthmcy]

Fiskis,

The frame number, as is the fork number and transmission number, is a unique number which does not match any other number on the motorcycle by intent (in other words, occassionally some of these numbers, frame fork transmission, might match but they will not match the motor serial number nor its bottom numbers).

The motor serial number sequences are unique to the model line, Big Twins have their own, Sportsters their own, and Servi-Cars their own. I can not speak for the lightweights (Sprints and 165) whether they were combined or had their own sequences.

A strike would not disrupt a serial number sequence but the actual counting of the monthly production runs might have left out a month by mistake. As I wrote before, we do not know at this time if the count was Fiscal Year of Oct to Sept or actual year of Jan to Dec. One more thing to consider, Even if the count was Fiscal Year, Oct to Sept, it might not include those produced in Sept for the upcoming year and which do bear the next seasons serial numbers.

[oldsouthmcy]

Tim,

In reply to "HD did not use a vin # on the frame outside of the casting #s until the 70's." This is partially true. The frame number I am speaking of is not a 1960's VIN nor is it a casting number. It is a stamped in "security code" which can be used as a valid frame number as it is unique to the assigned frame. It is found only on 1962-1970 Big Twin frames (I cannot speak for other model frames only the Big Twin). It is located on the left side of the neck casting on a small flat just below two dots (affectionately called a snake bite). It is a letter followed by four numbers. The letters started with A in 1962 and ended with K in 1970. The letters changed sequentially but I do not know what the trigger was to change from one to another, it was not year model.

[Fiskis]

Thanks everybody for the inputs. About 1963 numbers, anyone has knowledge of 63FL serials between ”official” 63FL9299 and 63FL9500?

Having more experience from the rigid tail era Harleys, wasn’t there some change in the stamps for the 1960:ies? I vaguely remember that the “6” in the year designation should have a rounded back, but the “6” and “9” in the serial were of the classic straight back type. Also the “4” has undergone some changes from closed to open top in the 40:ies, but was there some other specific about the serial number fonts of the 60:ies?

Fiskis

[Chris Haynes]

You can see samples of a lot of different year numbers on my website. www.vintageamericanmotorcycles.com

[Fiskis]

Thanks Chris, I did not remember where I had seen examples of numbers with comments. Your site gives excellent samples, unfortunately the 1960 and 1961 serials which had the "6" as first sign with a curved back have no comments if believed genuine or not. Also the 59 example has a curved back "9", and no comments. The 1962 serial has the classic straight back in "62".

Regards,
Fiskis

[Chris Haynes]

Thanks Chris, I did not remember where I had seen examples of numbers with comments. Your site gives excellent samples, unfortunately the 1960 and 1961 serials which had the "6" as first sign with a curved back have no comments if believed genuine or not. Also the 59 example has a curved back "9", and no comments. The 1962 serial has the classic straight back in "62".

Regards,
Fiskis

If there are no comments they are correct.

[cdndewey]

My 62FL has the curved back 6. It's an early 62, within the first 900.

[Fiskis]

Tim,

In reply to "HD did not use a vin # on the frame outside of the casting #s until the 70's." This is partially true. The frame number I am speaking of is not a 1960's VIN nor is it a casting number. It is a stamped in "security code" which can be used as a valid frame number as it is unique to the assigned frame. It is found only on 1962-1970 Big Twin frames (I cannot speak for other model frames only the Big Twin). It is located on the left side of the neck casting on a small flat just below two dots (affectionately called a snake bite). It is a letter followed by four numbers. The letters started with A in 1962 and ended with K in 1970. The letters changed sequentially but I do not know what the trigger was to change from one to another, it was not year model.

Where have you found that info regarding what is stamped on the left side of the frame, frame numbers? A buddy informed me that some is available from Jammers website. Is that where you found it?

Fiskis

[Chris Haynes]

Where have you found that info regarding what is stamped on the left side of the frame, frame numbers? A buddy informed me that some is available from Jammers website. Is that where you found it?

Fiskis

I found by looking at my bikes back in the '60's. Frames, Transmisson cases, and lower triple trees were stamped with a letter followed by four numbers. None of them matched but could all be traced to the VIN of the bike they were installed on.