After market wishbone frame

[Kris H]

Hi, I am piecing together a 1948 EL and wondered if any one has an opinion on any of the after market wishbone frames available from either V-Twin or Race Frame Engineering? Are they good, bad or great. I would also like to know how the judging community feels about these frames. All input would be appreciated!
Thanks a bunch,
Kris

[exeric]

I have not personally seen one, but people I respect have praised Race Frame Eng. products.

[Chris Haynes]

Here is one to stir up the hornets nest. The club allows reproduction parts as stated in Section VI Item number 6 of the judging Handbook.

"Accurately reproduced parts count the same as original while judging a restored category.
However, in judging an original condition category the part must be original."

We have seen Mike Smith's restored Hendersons with completely new reproduction frames go to the Winners Circle. When I asked Chief Judge Peter Heintz about this he said that in his opinion if the heart of the motorcycle (the heart being the engine) was original the rest could be reproduction.
Let the buzzing now begin.

[exeric]

Damn good point Chris. I guess it's like the military's attitude about gay soldiers; Don't ask, don't tell. If the judges don't ask, keep your mouth shut. I have to admire Race Frame Eng. because he has seemingly succeeded in producing spot-on reproduction forgings and correct brazing/welding assembly. Conscience, adherence to authenticity, pragmatic reality, and just plain good looks have to be considered. If an aftermarket manufacturer makes perfect reproductions. . . . Let your conscience be your guide. Personally, I prefer (can only afford) beat-up genuine.

[HD48FL]

Hi, I am piecing together a 1948 EL and wondered if any one has an opinion on any of the after market wishbone frames available from either V-Twin or Race Frame Engineering? Are they good, bad or great. I would also like to know how the judging community feels about these frames. All input would be appreciated!
Thanks a bunch,
Kris

I don't have experience with either frame, but the Vtwin repop frames get good feedback from many people. They don't have casting numbers as original.

Race Frame Engineering's frames seem to be as close to original as it gets because he's making them with casting numbers, etc. S&S is supposed to distribute them.

I guess it depends on what you're putting together and how accurate you want it to be?

[Chris Haynes]

Have you looked at Race Frames web site? Did ya notice that they make a replacement Wishbone frame that fits 1948-Late 1954 Panheads? The only problem I see with that is there are at least eight different frame variations during that era.
(1)The 1948 is a one year only frame. Skinny front motor mount. Round down tubes without any horn mounts.
(2)The Early 1949's have round down tubes where the horn mounts attach. These horn mounts have square corners.
(3) The Later '49-'50 frame down tubes were flattened at the horn mounts. Still square corners on the horn mounts.
(4) The late 1951-1953 got horn mounts with round corners.
(5) The 1952 frames got the new short tool box bracket. They also got the new design top motor mount and seat mounting bracket.
(6) The 1953 frames received thicker front motor mount.
(7) There were three different frames used in 1954. The first 1954 had the flattened spots on the down tubes but no horn mount.
(8)The second 1954 had round down tubes like the 1948. No horn mounts.
After the first 3,000 frames were built in 1954 the rest were Straight Leg frames. So late 1954 wasn't a Wishbone frame.
So will Race Frame make a correct frame for the year you need, or do you just have to use their generic 1948-1954 frame?

[Jerry Wieland]

Chris

I met him at Davenport and I am sure he will do whatever he can to get you a 'correct frame'. It cannot hurt to email him and ask.

Jerry

[Kris H]

Thank you to everyone for their opinion, it is appreciated! I am leaning toward the Race Frame Engineering frame although I would love to find an original frame. The main reason would be that an original 1948 frame is so hard to find in decent shape (anyone have an extra at a reasonable price?) and I do not have the facilities to straighten a bent frame or repair a chopped frame. I just wonder if the club some where down the line might change the rule and only accept original frames? The frames will only be harder to find and more expensive in the future. I am building this bike as if I bought it from a Police auction in the 1950's and left the paint Silver and most parts will be painted Black. I will have dog bones risers and reinforced 50's handlebars. It will be a plane jane rider with the intension of one day restoring it to factory original specs. This is why I would like to make a correct choice with the frame now.
Thanks a bunch,
Kris

[exeric]

I'm doing a '48FL and the frame was going to be a big expensive issue for me. I saw all of the absurdly priced '48 frames on Ebay and even considered biting the bullet and getting one of the more "cherry" examples. However, even the nice one's had their problems and there was the good possibility of a twisted neck. I've restored and completely rebuilt a lot of frames but there is no way I'm going to spend major big bucks for a frame that needs work. Fortunately, I lucked out and got a '48 chopper frame from a good friend and did all the work to bring it back. I'm not saying this to make you feel bad, just to point out that I was thinking along the same lines as you. I would want a genuine H-D frame over a reproduction frame and I would even pay more money for a genuine frame but that frame would have to be superb. There may be a few real nice genuine frames out there but they are very expensive. Race Frame Eng. makes what looks like a beautiful frame with all of the right forging numbers, and forging anomolies as well as the correct welding and brazing. I know people that have bought them who really know knuckleheads and they claim RFE frames are near perfect. If the RFE frames are that good, then how is someone going to know it's not OEM ? The reality is, the only way most people can spot a genuine frame is by the wear and abuse. As for the club changing the frame rule. It will never happen. There are way to many big buck motorcycles out there with reproduction frames.

[Kris H]

Thanks Eric, I feel a little better about the R.F.E. frames. I will email them and see if the 1948 only frame is available. The price was around $1800.00 with exchange rate of the dollar when I looked on there website. Thanks to Chris for the quick breakdown of the frames and the corresponding years, it is appreciated! I wonder how many, if any trips the R.F.E. guy does to the states?
Thanks again, The AMCA is GREAT!
Kris

[Chris Haynes]

I believe that you can buy the same frames from S&S.

[Lonnie]

I emailed Steve at RFE awhile back about the S&S deal and he said then that he had been very ill and unable to complete the deal at that time. Since Brett Smith has left S&S, who knows?

I'd email him for the scoop. He is a great guy and usually responds promptly.

He usually attends Davenport, I believe.

[Robert Luland]

I figure that a proper 48 with no issues $5000.00. Your chances of finding one? Nil! Even the frames on E-Bay that look like they don't have problems the seller most likley doesn't know about. Cracks in the front motor mount etc. The only 48 frame your buying thats straight is the one you sent to your frame guy to make it that way. On the average. If you grab one on Fleese-Bay no matter what you paid for it. Your going to pump another G plus into. Just make sure the side car and rear stand hoops are real and everything else is cake with TLC.

[Kris H]

I made a mistake on the price I put in the thread of $1800.00 That is wrong! I apoligize, it must of been my half-hymers! I looked today when I emailed Steve at R.F.E. and it would be approx. $2297.13 American dollars. I do not know what shipping will be or if he brings them over to the meets? Robert you are right on the money! If you find one it will need work and they are few and far between. I have only seen them on Ebay(2) and both were junk, but somebody paid some big money for them! I have never seen a 1948 only frame at the meets I go to (Eustis, Oley), I have seen a few later versions.
Kris H

[exeric]

I agree with Robert about the price of a genuine '48 frame and I also agree that they are very hard to find. The frame I was very fortunate to get from a good friend still needed a ton of work but I love that kind of work. Kris, I thought $1,800 sounded very good but even $2,300 would be good.