65 Pan Mirror Details

[rbenash]

So I have been to the meets talked to a few folks and there seems to be some consensus that on a stock or correct 65 Pan the hand lever brackets (45023-65) did not have a hole for stem mount mirrors. I've always thought/agreed that stock (at least early 65) examples would have clamp mount mirrors based on what was available in the '65 accessory catalog.

On my 65 these brackets have holes. It's hard for me to tell if they were drilled by the previous owner after market.

When I look at my 1958-1968 parts manual the drawing shows the hole and there's no 45023-66 version of the part that would suggest a change to unit's with holes from 66 on. Stem mount mirrors are an accessory in the 66 accessory catalog.

So although I'm convinced that factory clamp mount mirrors would be appropriate for a 65 Pan I'm not convinced that hand lever brackets with holes are not correct.

Anyone out there that can confirm either way or if it even matters if a bike will be judged at a meet?

Also note that '65 was the first year for the ball tip lever as well as the fact that the clamps and brakcets mentioned above were first year. So I'm thinking it *might* be possible that these brackets had holes for stem mount mirrors, the company knowing that the shovels were on there way. There wouldn't have been a "use up the parts in the bin first" decision as there were none there. So logically I think that 65's had brackets with holes, but clamp mount mirrors.

Ray

[portagepan]

That is a good question. My 1965 Harley FLH has the brackets with the hole for the mirror, and I have assumed it was correct. I hope so, because I like it that way. The parts book has one number starting in 1965 for the levers.
Mike

[rbenash]

Originally posted by portagepan
That is a good question. My 1965 Harley FLH has the brackets with the hole for the mirror, and I have assumed it was correct. I hope so, because I like it that way. The parts book has one number starting in 1965 for the levers.
Mike

Yeah, tell me about it. If you do a '65 resto then you need to know maybe for sure. I'm still not convinced I want to do that. I think I want to do a refurb perhaps to make it a really good runner.

I think folks really don't know or forget. I am betting no one with a stock 65 has brackets without holes. I really believe it's a folk legend that early 65 brackets did not have holes based on the knowledge that 65 accessory book did not have stem mount mirrors available and that every photo you see from '65 has HB mount mirrors.

I am really wondering how the heck an AMCA judge can really deal with a 65 Pan :-) You really have to know a lot about that specific year.

[T. Cotten]

I was shocked to look in my '65 edition of the Parts Book to find the same drawing as the common -68 reprints, as I have two lever assemblies with no hole for a mirror.

Then I flipped a lever assembly over and figured out what the little circle in the drawing apparently represents (see attachment.)

The '65 book lists no lever assembly for the clutch booster at all!
It only lists the new ball-end levers for the brake.

I run my brake on the right-hand side, so the dimple escaped my notice.

There were more running production changes in that year than any other except maybe '36.

....Cotten

[rbenash]

Hey T - that's exactly what I would have expected to see! Thanks for clarifying this. Looks like one of the previous owners drilled mine out. Probably pretty simple to just center punch in the middle of that little circle! Actually this fits when you relate it to the castings they used for the primary and timing covers. Stamping inside the cases say -65 but the same cases were used for 3 years or so and simply drilled out (or not drilled out) differently to meet the newer design requirements.

[jorrow]

1965 brake and mirror assembly

My 1965 has mirrors on handlebar clamps and brake lever assemblies with no holes in them. If you look at the 1965 new model brochure for the flh, it shows an up close picture of the same. I believe this is the last year for this mirror set up. jeff

[T. Cotten]

Next question:
Were the clamps cad or stainless?

....Cotten

[jorrow]

Mine are stainless, I have seen cad examples on older bikes. The cad ones had rounded corners by the eye hole. The stainless are nearly square. jeff

[rbenash]

On my1965 they are aluminum (based on appearance), same material as the levers.

[jorrow]

mirror clamps

Mr. Cotten, I tried to investigate your question of cad versus stainless deeper. Since mirrors were normally listed in accessory catologs alone I went back to 1950 and worked my way upward. In 1950 the cad plated rounded edge clamp #91885-48 was listed by itself in the mirror "section" of the publication for around 50 cents. No other clamp was listed. All photos in these books tends to back up that this was the one that was sold. This continues throughout the 50's. 1964 is the first year I see clamp # 91885-59A (stainless) being listed in this section. The former cad clamp is also listed. In 1965 only the stainless clamp appears and the '48 number was dropped. The 1965 flh new model picture shows the stainless clamp as well. However if there was a 59A number than there must of been a -59 as well?...so possibly a change came about in '59 that integrated the new clamp into the early 60's and that was made the standard by 1965. Though it is impossible to be exact this might be useful to others. jeff

[gmarakas]

Stainless on mine

Greetings All,

I have an original 65 that just made it to the Winner's Circle. On that one, and on the three restores we own, the clamps are all stainless. My accessories catalog for 65 also confirms this.

Hope this helps.

George

[rbenash]

So proper clamps for '65 would be stainless I assume. What kind of hit would you take on a '65 with cad clamps? What about control perches that were drilled out to accept stem mount mirrors?

[gmarakas]

I think you are correct. The clamps should be stainless. My guess is cad clamps would cost a 1/4 point although since the mirrors are accessories it could be argued they are exempt from judging. Good question for a judge.

The lever ramps are shown to have a hole for stem mirrors in the 55 to 65 spare parts book and in the 61 to 71 Electra-Glide and Super-Glide spare parts book. The H-D Archives has a 65 with side car that has stem mirrors, as well.

[Chris Haynes]

Remove the mirror for judging.

[gmarakas]

Chris is always the voice of practicality. I choose to leave such things in place. That way, even if a debate ensues, it will eventually be solved and knowledge will be gained from it.