My first panhead

[echambers]

Ed... It seems by reading your original post that you are ok with the VIN situation. As you said in your latest post "that ship has sailed". I can relate! As long as the authorities are ok with your VIN# and title, and you have not even the most remote hopes of every having an 'original' / 'correct' bike... God bless... Enjoy!

Edit: I'm glad Robbie is able to help you with your questions. I can't see enough in those pics you posted to give any answers re your actual VIN. The VIN pad (on my screen anyway) looks like aluminum oat meal.

Yes that VIN number is way back in there behind the horn and stuff I don't function well on my knees so I couldn't get a good picture. at some point I'm going to try and find the belly number on the right side case that should give an indication of what year the engine is, correct? Also plan to see if there are any frame numbers that may be some indication but at the end of the day we'll probably title it based on engine year as best as I can determine.

[HD48FL]

Have your state check the VIN, this way if they sign off, you'll have documentation that it was verified.

Is it a state assigned VIN, some sort of special construction or the like? Who stamped the vin on the case and frame?

[echambers]

The complication began when the person I got the bike from got the bike from whoever and parked it in his barn not doing anything with it therefore never having the title transferred over to his name. If that had been done it would just be a matter of applying for a lost title. Local law enforcement ran the numbers looking for any reports of it being stolen which came back clean. BMV ran the numbers looking for any lien holders which also came back clean. As far as who or how these new vin numbers were applied I have no idea. It would be great to know I've even considered one of those online services that will run a VIN number for $15 or whatever don't know if they're legit. Even though that would be just to satisfy curiosity still going to have to go through the court ordered process which I just did with another bike about 6 months ago wasn't a big deal state gets 30 days to respond if they feel there are any issues. If not judge rights court order for state to create a new title. Yes it would be great to have the original VIN number on the title but that's never going to happen it's just another one of the unoriginal parts on this old bike won't stop me from enjoying it.

[HD48FL]

If it's not a Harley VIN, possibly State Assigned, can you post pics of both VIN stampings? At this point, forget the 58FLHXXXX VIN, the original case is long gone and another VIN is being used. Which VIN did you have run to see if it was stolen? If you had the 58FLH VIN ran, it's meaningless.

Since the title was lost (likely because it didn't match the VIN on the bike), how did you purchase this, Bill of Sale? I would go to your BMV and let them verify the VIN and issue a title in your name, with the VIN that's on the bike.

It's a nice bike and has tons of potential, you should enjoy it, just need to straighten out the title/VIN.

[joe fxs fxr]

When you check the belly numbers they likely won't match, one being 58 and the other being 70's. Random thought, the original left case may be out there, with it's own motorcycle wrapped around it.

[echambers]

Thanks for the advice. I have a plan that worked well on my last title less bike I'm confident it will work again. I don't feel the need to post pictures of my current VIN number no offense but I don't see that adding any value to the situation. Having been through this before I'm aware of the process there is also the possibility that the title could be found the seller is still actively looking for it. My original intent was to gain insite and information about the modification of the shovelhead primary cover which I did. Just sorry that this VIN number thing seems to have taken over this thread maybe someone else with knowledge and experience about this modification will chime in.

[dukekleman]

Echambers,

There would not be any modification required for a production Inner housing or Outer primary cover.

Someone simply mated a left alternator style crankcase half to a Right generator style crankcase half.
It's all simple un-bolt fasteners and re-bolt fasteners type work.
Hopefully they checked pinion bearing race alignment at the time. Other than that, they would have matched the left flywheel half/sprocket shaft with the appropriate left crankcase.
Regardless, no special machining process required at all...

Lastly they would have installed the correct transmission gear case along with the correct length main shaft for the alternator style chain case housing being used.
All using factory produced parts that do not require any specific machine work.

It's all Just a bunch of mix and match work.

I hope this helps answer your questions,

Duke Kleman

[echambers]

When you check the belly numbers they likely won't match, one being 58 and the other being 70's. Random thought, the original left case may be out there, with it's own motorcycle wrapped around it.

Yes I understand the right side belly number was the one I wanted to find I'm in hopes that maybe at least the main engine components are 58 for a goofy reason, I myself am a 58 model thought it would be cool if I could have the old bike title as a 58..

[echambers]

Echambers,

There would not be any modification required for a production Inner housing or Outer primary cover.

Someone simply mated a left alternator style crankcase half to a Right generator style crankcase half.
It's all simple un-bolt fasteners and re-bolt fasteners type work.
Hopefully they checked pinion bearing race alignment at the time. Other than that, they would have matched the left flywheel half/sprocket shaft with the appropriate left crankcase.
Regardless, no special machining process required at all...

Lastly they would have installed the correct transmission gear case along with the correct length main shaft for the alternator style chain case housing being used.
All using factory produced parts that do not require any specific machine work.

It's all Just a bunch of mix and match work.

I hope this helps answer your questions,

Duke Kleman

Thank you good information goes along with what I've learned in other posts on this thread and read on my own it's probably a safe assumption that this mod has been done a lot over the years. Been doing some reading in the Palmer book and finding I have a lot of non-correct parts but everything fits! That's all that matters! Reminds me of that old Johnny Cash song about the car.

[HD48FL]

Just like #20 pointed out, there could also be a title/registration out there for the VIN on your bike. That's why I asked earlier if it was a State Assigned VIN or what? An individual cannot simply stamp a VIN into a vehicle, granted I know it happens, but it can open up a can of worms later.

[echambers]

Thanks to all that have shown an interest in this Lol. New discovery looking through all the nooks and crannies between the engine and frame searching for belly number on the right side case "which I could not find pretty gnarly under there" with a small inspection camera I can see where the crankcase and the gear case have been welded back together. Looks like pretty good work but indicates to me that there may have been a major bottom end failure at some time and that does go along with the story I was told. So maybe the original VIN number went out with the left side crank cover and a new number was created hopefully by a reputable source. Not the best case scenario but plausible I'll take it for now.

[Speeding Big Twin]

Yes that VIN number is way back in there behind the horn and stuff I don't function well on my knees so I couldn't get a good picture. at some point I'm going to try and find the belly number on the right side case that should give an indication of what year the engine is, correct? Also plan to see if there are any frame numbers that may be some indication but at the end of the day we'll probably title it based on engine year as best as I can determine.

Welcome to the forum.

Frame looks like the type used for 58–64. Originally they had no frame number but on the steering head you may find a forging number and a forging die number which may help with model year.
Stamped on the R-H side of the frame top engine mount you may find a date code indicating the month and year it was made.
Stamped on the left side of the steering head you may or may not find an additional original component identifying number, aka security code, aka anti-theft number, consisting of one letter followed by either three or four numbers but they may be hard to see because they are only about 1/8” tall.

Regarding the cases, I agree the left one is alternator style but is the case Harley or AM? I do not know yet.
H-D Shovel alternator cases for the first couple of years had a number boss although originally it was unstamped. I can’t tell much from the photos. Does the left case have a number boss?

On alternator Shovels the VIN shifted from the R-H case to the left case during the 1983 model year but there was no number boss. Usually the engine VIN consisted of four letters followed by six numbers and overall it was an abbreviated version of the 17-character VIN on the frame.

Does the left case have a crankcase production number? And if so are there any other markings nearby? Or any markings at the back of the case or on top of it near the rear mounting bolt?

Also you mentioned 58 a couple of times. You said the person you got the bike from had a clean title but lost it. Did he say the title said 58? Thanks.
Eric

[DEEBS47Chief1991]

What I think is interesting is the unknown historical story here. It seems that the original aging builder loved his bike and needed electric start in order to continue riding it as long as he could. He put a lot of thought and work into the modification and he got a few more years of riding out of it. Where ever he is today, God bless him as we all worry about how much longer we can kick over 1200cc's.

[droptopford]

Just sorry that this VIN number thing seems to have taken over this thread...

The Forum Members here are just trying to look out for your best interest.
The "VIN number thing" took over because when it comes right down to it, it's pretty important.

[DEEBS47Chief1991]

Yes, to many, it's the difference between a rideable motorcycle or parting out to re-coup some money.